Revenge of the meek - Tzimisce S&B

If I may, I'd like to go back to your original deck. I'll probably repeat what was said, but I think that people are going off topic (I think).
- You want to use group 3/4 Tzimisce with Obf. Cool!
- Others are correct, that if you don't use the obfuscate, it will probably be better to go to other groups.

1st Question: Why do you want to use the Obfuscate? Is it because that you play on heavy intercepts tables? If not, it still okay to use the obf, just make sure to take that into account (play with cycling cards for example the Barrens).

2nd Question: Why Tzimisce? Or better, why Vissitude? Between those two, you only have 11 cards. If you want to use these traits/disciples, great, otherwise, it should be re-looked at.

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So lets go back to your original statement: Wanting to make Group 3/4 Tzimisce obfuscate work. So lets look at them.

1 Guedado aus obf vic 4 Tzimisce
1 Ana Rita Montana aus dom obf VIC 5 Tzimisce
1 Laika chi obf vic ANI AUS 7 Tzimisce
1 Lady Zara Slatikov ANI AUS OBF VIC 8 Tzimisce
1 Cyscek dem ANI AUS OBF VIC 10 Tzimisce
1 Sha-Ennu obf tha ANI AUS CHI VIC 11 Tzimisce

Guedado... but he is Laibon and can't play Fiendish tongue or aninmalism
Ana Rita - VIC (but you are currently no using it much) and still no animalism - but can Fiendish / Changling like a champ
Laika - Bad ability but looks like good support vamp
Lady Zara - Everything you need
Cyscek - Everything you need
Sha-Ennu - Good, but big and inferior obf.

[we can get into possible support vamps in a second]

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So cards that fit into your theme:
- Soul Decoration - If you have enough blocking / bounce this is a fine action to take. Particularly if you have some bleed permanents and you can use it at inferior if you draw it late game.
- Obfuscate Stealth: other people are correct in that you can just use Mind of the Wild and Plasmic Form to make up for the 6 random stealth cards. So use what they are good for! Faceless Night, Lost in Crowds and Elder Impersonation are good. Swallowed will double as a maneuver . And if you want to get tricksy, Mask of 1000, will allow you have someone fight lady zara with some nasty combat.
- Read the Winds / Mind of the Wild: Staple cards. Good.
- Abbot - its a free intercept against D actions, rarely blocked and you untap
- Feindish Tongue - Bleed with untap. Good.


You state that you want it to be a little stealthy but with a wall element to it. You are debating between defense combat and hit back combat. That's cool.

I would mix it up and see what you like and what is good for your meta game. Aura reading or Owl companion allows you do determine whether to play crows or meld with the land. If you deal with a lot of Immortal grapple (No... don't play Immense Size ) But Chiroptean marauder or Body Arsenal is quite good (and Body Arsenal can be played at inferior. )
Oh course, if you have any agg damage, one Rotschek I heard is good.

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I'm going all over the place so I'll quickly show you some possible supoprt vamps that add to theme.
[many many vamps with obf aus] but with obf vic (and sabbat)...

1 Luc dem vic OBF 5 Malkavian Antitribu
1 Drusilla Euphemia dem vic AUS OBF 6 Malkavian Antitribu
1 Morrow the Sage cel vic OBF PRO 6 Gangrel Antitribu
1 Harold Zett vic AUS DEM OBF POT 9 Malkavian Antitribu
1 Gravitnir AUS CEL DEM OBF VIC 10 Malkavian Antitribu

[And for a differnet deck, search group 3/4 vissisitude and dementation... ]

Hope this helps some,
Adam

Ohlmann wrote:

I am trying to put the advice into another list. It's just hard to do, because of the problem. I am trying to do a gr4-5 crypt for skindoctor + Duality, but there is not much gr5 vampires. At least there is Nicomedes and Sennadurek as possible support.

Again: Have you tried to trade for the 2/3 vampires? I doubt it would take much work to get them, and any hoop-jumping you need to do to get them will save you a lot of hoop-jumping while building your deck and playing. On top of which, the 2/3 guys are pretty good for a number of different kinds of decks, meaning that you get a good bit of variety for your investment.

Kushiel wrote:

Again: Have you tried to trade for the 2/3 vampires? I doubt it would take much work to get them, and any hoop-jumping you need to do to get them will save you a lot of hoop-jumping while building your deck and playing. On top of which, the 2/3 guys are pretty good for a number of different kinds of decks, meaning that you get a good bit of variety for your investment.

Well, the main problem is that I mainly interact with people who strictly have black hand and later card. So, trading for gr 2 mean go to another town to exchange or buy to locals player. It's not impossible by any mean, it's just way slower. It's especially bad since I need an entire crypt and not just to fill the holes, I.E. something like 16-20 vampires to have a bit of room to adjust the crypt.

(the four aforementionned chiroptean marauder are from about 6 entire box of third edition. Meanwhile, we got a total of 5 war ghoul. Random is random it seem)

Ohlmann wrote:

Well, it's not a deck that can bleed someone out by surprise, unlike for example blood brother. It does not mean the concept is completely invalided, just that the defense is particulary important.

It's possible to go the route of having a smattering of Monkey Wrench in, a few Anarch Converts, and not much other Anarch tech. You could throw away the Wider Views, too, maybe.

It's not the strongest move on earth, but being able to threaten significant lunge capability might be worthwhile. Certainly, I might be tempted to try it in a casual game or two.

erewego wrote:

Hope this helps some,
Adam

A good analysis!

What can obfuscate do? Stealth obviously, but what else is there?

Conceal is great but not something to build a deck around. Disguised Weapon is nice for surprise agg but less so with Tzim as they already can do aggravated nicely enough. Animal Magnetism would let you vote, so that's one possibility, but the obf Tzim have very lackluster titles. Howabout Hidden Lurker? Aggra poke would then only be foiled by prevent.

Monkey wrench is clearly a surprising and somehow possible card

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Howabout Hidden Lurker? Aggra poke would then only be foiled by prevent.

That's an option. But since Hidden Lurker is so action expensive, it need either that I find a creative way to untap people or that I load on the cheaper guy. As Erewego said, there is quite a bit of cheap guy, so it may work if I play it whithout too much pressure from the predator.

As a side note, the option - other than carrion - gun that I see is chiroptean marauder, high ground, breath of the dragon. Breath of the dragon is not too great, but it can work as long as I get some maneuver, and it require only

Edit : another option that work well with having bleed permanent : Mask of 1000 faces. If I fear being blocked, then I bleed with a small vampire for 1, and mask once block are declined. If I fear being redirected, I bleed with the bigger bleeder, then mask if I got redirected. In both case, my prey must take care of everyone.