GENERAL RESULTS:

The Proxy Survey
N = 440

1) For each kind of event, please choose if you want to allow proxies:

2) Do you think a new tournament format, in which proxies would be allowed, should be created? (This only matters if you answered "No" to every format above)

Comments (28)

Comment #1: My opinion is if you take the collector's and subsequently the value aspect out of a card game, people feel less special when making they're fun decks. Which I believe will lead to people getting bored of the game faster, being able to collect the cards needed for a deck is half the fun for many people. Therefore I think the only two options are to get v:tes printed again or leaving the game as is.

Comment #2: I think that as long as we don't know where Paradox stands with publishing VtES we should not use proxies. If after a while we get "No interest" from there also, allowing proxies with limits in all tournaments will probably be the way to go, unofortunately.

Comment #3: Players do not like to have more than 1 format so creating a new-one which would not be the "only one" would lead to split the small surviving community.

Comment #4: If proxies are used, the cards must be easily identifiable and the player must have the full referenced card available outside of the deck for questions.

Comment #5: There aren't a lot of tournaments. So make only one format without restrictions. Allow Proxies.

Comment #6: Parallel tournaments, with and without proxies. The best reward for the winner of without proxies.

Comment #7: In France we already have a specific format for proxies. Create a global format, why not, but I would prefer that the proxies are allowed on all tournaments.

Comment #8: There are good rare cards in Vtes but no uber power cards that break the game.

Comment #9:Even the most basic deck can sit down at a table and have an even chance of winning. This is great draw of Vtes for me.

Comment #10: I understand why some might desire to keep high level events "pure" but allowing proxies at one level, but not another would lock those new players who have to rely on proxies from these events. I'm not sure that's what we want to say to new players "oh, yes, you can play with your local gaming group, but don't ever think about coming to a major tournament."

Comment #11: Having access to cards (like LCG games) and in different languages (French) should include new players more easily with no limitations.

Comment #12: Yes. That helps to get people going play the game and try things, just keep away the proxies from the 'big' tournaments to keep that a bit more official.

Comment #13: I would add a bonus for playing with non-proxy card decks.

Comment #14: Not sure about this. But we could 'upgrade' the 'standard' events to being allowed for proxies (with one original version of the non-vekn-issued cards in the deck, or in a 'side deck').

Comment #15: A new format is better than no format, but preference would be with all formats allowing proxies. See comment below.

Comment #16: I'm not against proxies, and I think we should study the effects by having a tournament format without proxy limits at least at bigger events.

Comment #17: I believe different 'proxy tournaments' are a good idea.

Comment #18: See my comment below - whatever the proxy rule, needs to be the same across all sanctioned VEKN events.

Comment #19: Proxies are not good for the game and players.

Comment #20: Limit Regarding Cost. If 4-6 copies of a card cost 1-3$ in the secondary market, disallow proxies. but if a card, costs 10$++ PER COPY, allow proxies. 10$ can be higher...

Comment #21: Two different sets of tournaments imply no one can really be "the best". There would be two "the best" and that is ludicrous.

Comment #22: We should allow proxies for the current tournament format.

Comment #23: An LCG style format would be good in my opinion.

Comment #24: Either you ban proxies, or you accept them FULLY. No alienation and discrimination of players please.

Comment #25: Allow "alternate art" or redrawn on proxies, paper adds a thickness that can be manipulated.

Comment #26: Additional formats risk fragmenting competition events.

Comment #27: I would prefer proxies be allowed in all tournaments with the limitation that the player must have 1 copy of the actual card, and at least half the crypt and library be original. But if this does not happen, then a new format should be created that allows proxies without restriction.

Comment #28: Maximum 1/4 of the library/crypt cards.

3) What kind of general limitations, regarding proxies, do you think would suit the game best?

Comments (52)
Comment #1: The limit should be 0. Proxis would kill the game and make many experienced players quit the game.

Comment #2: Free proxies for all tournaments except national and continental championships.

Comment #3: No proxies.

Comment #4: Limits.

Comment #5: Max 1 proxy per 15 cards in deck (4 in 60 card deck, 5 in 75 card deck, 6 in 90 card deck).

Comment #6: Proxies shouldn't be allowed.

Comment #7: I don't feel like allowing proxies alters game play, and would increase the likelihood of player participation.

Comment #8: Max 50% proxies of total card amount.

Comment #9: One event with proxies, the next without proxies would lead to a sad situation. People you can catch with the first event may wait for a third event.

Comment #10: I would suggest 5% rounded up for library and no limits for crypt cards.

Comment #11: Proxies are fine for testing a deck in a friendly pub game.

Comment #12: I can fully understand if someone wants to try the deck/cards before getting them, mainly in case of expensive pieces. But proxies shouldn't have any place in tournamets.

Comment #13: 10 proxies in a deck.

Comment #14: Proxies should to be printed cards. It will be nice if there should be accepted if someone print the cards in high quality.

Comment #15: ALL Proxy Card(s) should be at least actual card size black and white or colour print reasonable quality in which ALL rules/effects/abilities on the card are clearly viewable to the players.

Comment #16: Any limitations should be based on making proxies viable in a tournament format; not promoting a stigma against them.

Comment #17: No need limitations. Accept all card.

Comment #18: All proxies *must* be printed from a single source, VEKN marked for example, to standardise text.

Comment #19: Only the third part of the deck and only commons and uncommons can be allowed.

Comment #20: Setting limits prevents new players from coming.

Comment #21: The proxies should be of some quality. A fully colored and correctly sized picture. Giving an illusion of a real card, if possible.

Comment #22: The issue is not proxies. The issue is that people have moved on, there are a lot of shitty cards, and VTES is dead.

Comment #23: Proxies on a specific tournament format only, for specific cards or expansions only (the most difficult sets or non-base sets). New cards that will replace old cards are still preferable in general.

Comment #24: Proxies must use current rule text, be identifiable by sight I.e. With pictures and apropriate border.

Comment #25: As long as the game is out of print, no limits should be imposed. If/when the game starts getting printed again then there should be no proxies -- play with what you own.

Comment #26: Just because it is impossible to have access to new cards for a new player.

Comment #27: I think it is a hassle to check, so for proxy-allowed tournaments just play without limitation.

Comment #28: No limits on proxies. We need new players into play groups. Lets remove any obstacles that would prevent a new player from participating on equal ground.

Comment #29: Actually, both. For local and qualifier events, unlimited proxies -- for championship events, proxies (or specific pdf reprints) with limits.

Comment #30: Limited list of must have cards Say 100 different or so.

Comment #31: If proxies are to be allowed because of card limitations (reprint impossibility, etc), then it makes no sense to only allow a portion as it does nothing to help new players. It's like giving a cane to someone who needs a wheelchair.

Comment #32: Maximum 3 proxies.

Comment #33: I think whatever the proxy rule, needs to be the same across all event types.

Comment #34: I dont like any proxis in this game.

Comment #35: Proxies have to be print card quality (color, high dpi).

Comment #36: 10%

Comment #37: High standards of quality for the proxies.

Comment #38: Only new expansions.

Comment #39: Hard to obtain cards: - starter deck only - only in one expansion, printed in small amounts - rare and required in big number.

Comment #40: If we allow proxies at all, then I don't think it makes sense to place arbitrary limits on them. We also have a precedent for this type of behavior with the newest card sets. And since the printing of new cards isn't happening anytime soon, I think something like allowing proxies is necessary, if we want to have more players playing the game. I understand that it will kill the card trade, which is very lucrative for some, but I believe it would be healthy for those who want to play. Although I'm sure I'm going to change my mind, when I come across the first Nightmare Curse deck, or the four people racing with their 15 Ashurs in each deck.

Comment #41: Limit Regarding Cost. If 4-6 copies of a card cost 1-3$ in the secondary market, disallow proxies. But if a card costs 10$++ PER COPY, allow proxies. 10$ can be higher...

Comment #42: Let the best deck builder and the best player win, not the one that is lucky enough to have the cards from the time they were available, or money for the cards on eBay and/or the luck to inherit them. Do we really want more players in the game or not?

Comment #43: IMHO, %20 to %30 should be allowed as proxies. Both to provide an allowance for proxies, and also to encourage people to purchase some of the printed cards.

Comment #44: I believe players should be able to transcend limitations by producing proxies of a substantial quality.

Comment #45: No qualification for European Championship in tournaments with proxies.

Comment #46: As for now, the only way the game can survive is by attracting new players. They will not be willing to invest thousands of dollars, euros,... just to get started. I have spent that money. But that doesn't matter. The game should be played, regardless of CCG economics ( C, U, R )... I have had so many deck ideas I couldn't afford. Creative deck building without the financial limits will only make for a better game.

Comment #47: Only cards created by VEKN should be used as proxies, like Danse Macabre and The Unaligned.

Comment #48: Limit to 5% proxies per deck, from those max 1 rare card, max 3 uncommon cards.

Comment #49: Proxies not tournament-legal for most events, and events allowing proxies clearly marked as such well before game day.

Comment #50: At least 1 original card to put any number of proxys.
at most 10% of the deck may have Proxy.

Comment #51: No proxies for any events and the banning of players who try to use proxies from all future events for at least 1 year.

Comment #52: Every card should be limited to certain number of proxies allowed.

4) What kind of limitations, regarding numer of proxies in one deck, do you think would suit the game best?

Comments (48)

Comment #1: Currently, as there is no offial release, it is difficult to attract new players. Adding some limits would cause some attractivity issues, for me.

Comment #2: Max 1 card n-times in the deck proxied.

Comment #3: You may proxy up to 10% of your deck, for example. More might be a bit annoying.

Comment #4: Crypt without proxies. In the library about 10% of deck can be proxied, but only Rare cards (such as enkil cog, dreams and so on).

Comment #5: Both options: "have at least one original copy of the card in the deck" AND "have a maximum number of different card that are proxied".

Comment #6: Maximum percentage of proxied cards on the deck (don't know what this percentage would be, like to think that at least over half of the deck should be non-proxies) and maximum amount of same card (like, no more than 10 same proxi card).

Comment #7: Must have at least the same number of 'real' cards in your deck. So if you have 2 real Parity Shifts, you can put max 2 proxy parity shifts in your deck.

Comment #8: Proxied cards should also be able to be shown in somekind of version, like from phone or printed proxy etc.

Comment #9: I think 10% is reasonable.

Comment #10: No proxies.

Comment #11: Use proxy cards only for non-common card, rare; cards hard to buy for the high cost and low availability.

Comment #12: 10% so an amount between 6/60 and 9/90. This alleviates not owning rares from out of print sets. I usually lack about that amount of cards for a deck and I own 14000 cards.

Comment #13: Proxies should be printed cards. It will be nice if there would be accepted if someone printed the cards in high quality.

Comment #14: No proxy limits.

Comment #15: No limit on number of proxies used (even a full deck is allowed) but all proxies are of a reasonable printed black and white or colour, card size standard where the effects/abilities/rules of the card are clearly viewable to all players.

Comment #16: The goal should be to reduce confusion and make it easier to allow proxies in a tournament format without impeding ease of play.

Comment #17: It'll be hard to count each time. No need to do that.

Comment #18: The proxies, if managed centrally, would have living card texts, so would be more accurate than the printed cards in many cases.

Comment #19: In this case, the card market won't suffer too much, I guess.

Comment #20: No limit.

Comment #21: max. 10% limit of the deck.

Comment #22: I have invested a great amount of money in official cards because I like having the official cards. But others don’t have the spare money to do the same and that’s understandable. I don’t want to compete against other player’s bank account; I want to compete against their knowledge of the game, against their skills at deck building and table reading, against their abilities of bluffing and negotiating and so on… Limiting proxies only benefits cards dealers who are profiting like never before. I hope proxies to be completely liberated while Paradox figures out a strategy to restart printing the game. And I hope they learn from the experience of the LCG’s, in which the big money goes to the publisher, not the dealers.

Comment #23: Imagine the work that the tournament organizer would need to go through to enforce these limits! Again, I understand why people might like these, but if I was a TO, I would hate to look at every deck, and count the number of proxy cards (remember that official VEKN sets wouldn't count!!). Let's not make this super complicated, and let's not make a TO's job any harder!

Comment #24: Have a standard design for creating proxies (say, an allowed blank card format to write on) and appropriately signed by the TO on the specific event it is used, or a signed printout of the full card, to avoid tampered rulings on these desktop-printed versions.

Comment #25: Option 1 + 2 + 4

Comment #26: For local and qualifier events, I'm for no limits -- proxy as much as you like. That lowers the entry bar for new players considerably, which is great. For championship events, I'm for a pdf-published, printable, small base-set of existing core cards, being sure to include vital cards that are hard for new players to acquire, such as Villein and Deflection. I also would not be averse to allowing a SINGLE card to be proxied an unlimited number of times PER deck at championship events, on top of having that printable base-set available, as that would further empower new players to experiment with specialty/novelty strategies in a competitive environment.

Comment #27: Free as long as the proxies are from the sanctioned list

Comment #28: See comment above.

Comment #29: Only worry with allowing proxies in tournaments would be more people showing up with more cheesy obnoxious decks with a bunch of expensive, rare and powerful cards like mind rapes, tupdogs, enkil cogs, barrenness, 50 freak drives etc. I suggest a maximum of 5 proxies total per deck in a tournament or something similar.

Comment #30: Have the same amount of original cards as number of proxies in deck in which you use most proxies of a certain card. It means that if you had time, you could switch genuine cards between decks.

Comment #31: Maximum 3 proxies.

Comment #32: Both have a maximum percentage AND have to have 1 outside the deck for card text.

Comment #33: No proxies in decks.

Comment #34: Because the proxies are readable and don't require any card to be shown similar to vekn endorsed cards.

Comment #35: I'm not sure I'd want to place any limits, if proxies are allowed in tournament play in the first place. I hate arbitrary limits in general, but I'm willing to accept that it's possible that some limits might be necessary. There are, after all, cards in V:TES which are very powerful, and only the fact that they are rare keeps multiple copies of them from being used in half the decks. Personally, I think it would be best to let people play however many proxies as they want, I'm just more worried about the quality of the card text. It needs to be clearly legible, so that you don't have to go squinting at every card. But like I said, if it turns out to be an issue, with the super rare cards completely dominating the tournament scene, then some limits might have to be imposed.

Comment #36: Limit Regarding Cost. if 4-6 copies of a card costs 1-3$ in the secondary market, disallow proxies. but if a card, costs 10$++ PER COPY, allow proxies. 10$ can be higher...

Comment #37: I like requiring an original copy of the proxied card. You can use your proxy of something like enkil cog, but you need one original to show you're not just going crazy with it.

Comment #38: I believe the trouble with proxies is primarily the disruption of the theme and readability of the game, which can only be avoided if either there is a maximum percentage of proxies in a deck, or a minimum quality of those proxies. An entirely proxied deck is disasterous when done poorly, but beautiful when done well.

Comment #39: Have all original cards not in the deck

Comment #40: Limit to 5% proxies per deck, from those max 1 rare card, max 3 uncommon cards

Comment #41: I would prefer a combination of the 2nd and 4th option, so having a card outside the deck to reveal when a proxy is played, as well as a maximum number of proxed cards.

Comment #42: No limits. At this point, you have an old game with large numbers of out of print cards. Don't raise the bar for new players to play and compete. If you wanted to encourage financial investment in the game by new game companies, you might ban proxies for any set(s) that are in print or say less that two years old. That might strike a good balance between making the game accessible and supporting new development.

Comment #43: The proxy printing should be good enough.

Comment #44: No Proxies.

Comment #45: No proxies for any events and the banning of players who try to use proxies from all future events for at least 1 year.

Comment #46: + You have to have one original copy of the card outside the deck, to be revealed when a proxy is played

Comment #47: Having an original copy outside the deck. This is mainly so that an authentic fully printed card can be consulted for rules questions and clarity. However this could be replaced with printed errata for those cards which are no longer ruled to be played in their as is form.

Comment #48: I would prefer one original copy either outside _or_ inside the deck, with the further limitation that at least half the crypt and library be originals.


5) Specify country of residence.

6) How long have you been playing VTES?

7) How many VTES cards do you possess?

ALL events together:

Standard events:

Continental Championships