file Game Setup: looking at the crypt cards before clocks starts

30 Apr 2024 20:23 #111308 by Kilrauko


I don't want to punish anyone, neither I like do so.
However since I started playing competitive this game, my elders told me not to look at cards before clock starts.
That makes sense to me because since it's a game based on time, if someone looks at cards before time start, he's basically playing with more time than the rest of the table (even if are few seconds, doesn't matter, it's the concept that matters).

And yes, I know I am not playing mtg and I have no idea why you should make this comparison like you know I come from mtg competitive playing.
I am asking in a v:tes forum in order to better understand rules, since some things i learned by voice from my elders are different from what I read in the rules.
If I had to ask in an mtg forum probably I would receive different answers


Your elders clearly have either misunderstood the translation from the rulebook to mean something else or have decided to play with custom house rules as there's been no change with the uncontrolled card viewing since, well, here's LSJ from 1996 groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/YMACu6V49Ag/m/MP1ZvabVmWQJ ... I assume since the rulebook version with that number system got removed passages such as these were thrown away with the bathwater and replaced with less clear ones.

G. Each Methuselah deals four Crypt cards to her inactive region. (4.2.4)
NOTE: You may look at the cards in your own inactive region whenever you
wish. (4.2.4) [11.4]


The current rulebook has the following in the Game setup section www.vekn.net/rulebook/3-playing-the-game ;

To begin, separate your crypt cards (10) from your library cards (11). Shuffle both decks and allow your predator to cut both. Place both decks in front of you. Draw the top seven library cards to form your hand (12) and deal the top four crypt cards face down into your uncontrolled region (6). You can look at the cards in your hand and in your uncontrolled region at any time during the game.


where ".. at any time during the game." can be mistranslated or misunderstood to somehow mean inside the x amount of time that the separate tournament rules set out. Especially when tournament rules follow the previous convention and simply say www.vekn.net/tournament-rules ;

3.2. Pre-Game Procedure

The following steps must be performed in order before each game begins.

Players shuffle their decks.
Players present their decks to their predators for additional shuffling and cutting, if desired.
Each player draws seven cards from his or her library and four cards from his or her crypt.

All shuffling must be done so that the faces of the cards cannot be seen. Regardless of the method used to shuffle, players' decks must be sufficiently randomized. Each time players shuffle their decks (before the game or during the game), they must present their decks to their predator for additional shuffling and/or cutting. At the judge's discretion, players may request to have a judge shuffle their cards rather than pass that duty to their predators. By presenting their decks to their predators, players state that their decks are sufficiently randomized.

After decks are presented and accepted, players who do not consider their opponents' decks to be sufficiently randomized must notify a judge. The head judge has final authority regarding whether a deck has been sufficiently randomized.

Once predators have the opportunity to shuffle and/or cut players' decks, the cards are returned to their original owners. If the predator has shuffled the player's deck, that player may make one final cut.


without ever mentioning "looking" at said drawn cards. Why it's not said there and instead there are multiple words on shuffling? Because the previous iteration of the rulebook had that covered with adequate and accurate wording that didn't need explanation and could not be misunderstood.

Hence per the current rulebook text of "..any time during the game..." and tournament rules headline "pre-game procedure" it's possible to understand that player is not allowed to look at said drawn cards as it's all "pre-game". Only after the timer starts the "pre-game" stops and "game" begins. It's very human error to make without knowledge of the earlier rulebooks and can be even more compounded if there's need to translate.

Before this was not a problem as "You may look at the cards in your own inactive region whenever you wish." is sentence that is tad hard to understand wrong.

BCP please fix the wording in the current online rulebook to more accurate and clear wording. Perhaps return to the 1990's version? HeadCleaner please explain the above to your elders so they and you can return to following the proper vtes tournament etiquette so we'll all play by the same rules and standards maintaining the equality for player rankings across regions.

And lastly it's never wrong to ask questions as it can highlight issues such as laid out above.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
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01 May 2024 07:31 #111315 by HeadCleaner
Thanks everyone for the reply, I had to ask that even because the rulebook does not specify that, in a sense or the other. At least that's how I interpret it.
Maybe in the idea of who wrote that is clearly explained.

Happy bleeding to everyone

BARON OF REGGIO æEMILIA

:AUS: :PRO: :ANI:

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02 May 2024 12:40 #111329 by Ankha

Thanks everyone for the reply, I had to ask that even because the rulebook does not specify that, in a sense or the other. At least that's how I interpret it.
Maybe in the idea of who wrote that is clearly explained.

Happy bleeding to everyone

It wouldn't be in the rulebook but in the tournament rules.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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02 May 2024 16:30 #111330 by angrynewb
I like the current tournament rules to be able to look at your hand and library cards whenever you place them. Otherwise, the first couple players would be at a disadvantage, or they would have to take a longer turn. 

Additionally, it incentivizes players to get ready for the game earlier if they want to think about their cards longer. that helps the organisers get the games going on time.
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