file Joseph Pander and Soulgem of Etrius

07 May 2013 14:32 - 07 May 2013 14:33 #48302 by Kraus
Hello!

If Caroline Bishops with Soulgem was chosen for Joseph Pander's special for that turn and is burned, is a potential follow up Caroline eligible for Joseph's rush ability that turn as well?

Also, if yes, if Caroline has already done that action, can the second Caroline do it as well?

Mainly the question is, does Joesph Pander check for vampire name or that particular copy of a unique Pander?

The same trick could be done with Possession, Demonic Possession or Eternal Mask as well. Does the same answer apply to those cards as well?


Name: Joseph Pander
[SoC:R]
Cardtype: Master
Clan: Pander
Unique master.
Put this card in play. Tap and burn 1 pool to cause a (D) action against a Pander you control to fail. During your master phase, choose a Pander. Once this turn, that Pander may enter combat with any minion as a (D) action. Any Sabbat vampire may burn this card as a (D) action.
Artist: Heather Kreiter

Name: Soul Gem of Etrius
[Jyhad:R, VTES:R, CE:R, Third:R, KoT:R]
Cardtype: Equipment
Unique equipment.
If this vampire is burned, draw the top card from your crypt. If it is younger, put the Soul Gem on him or her and move him or her to your ready region with blood from the blood bank equal to his or her capacity; otherwise, move that card to your uncontrolled region (and burn the Soul Gem). If bearer is diablerized, the diablerizing vampire cannot take the Soul Gem.
Artist: Jim Nelson; Pete Burges; Dave Roach

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

Facebook @ VtES: Joensuu
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Last edit: 07 May 2013 14:33 by Kraus.

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07 May 2013 15:00 - 07 May 2013 15:00 #48304 by jamesatzephyr

Kraus wrote: Hello!

If Caroline Bishops with Soulgem was chosen for Joseph Pander's special for that turn and is burned, is a potential follow up Caroline eligible for Joseph's rush ability that turn as well?


No.

[LSJ 19990309]

LSJ wrote: While the wording does have some problems, they do not pose any problem to this situation. The Herbert who was the acting vampire referred to
by Sensory Deprivation is in the Ash Heap. The one who is in play is not Sensory Deprivation's "acting vampire".

So, no matter the other ambiguity on Sensory Deprivation, it doesn't work "through" a Soul Gem (or through a contesting if the "acting" Herbert is yieled, and so on). This is standard for all cards that "select", "choose" or otherwise refer to a specific card in play - they refer to cards by specific instance of the card, not by specific "name" that applies to all copies of that card.

Last edit: 07 May 2013 15:00 by jamesatzephyr.

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09 May 2013 08:56 #48330 by jamesatzephyr

Kraus wrote: The same trick could be done with Possession, Demonic Possession or Eternal Mask as well. Does the same answer apply to those cards as well?


Sorry, I forgot to answer this bit.

The answer is also "no, the resurrected vampire can't do the thing", but the reasoning is slightly different.

When a vampire enters the ash heap (e.g. burning) or crypt (e.g. Chain of Command, Banishment+Memory's Fading Glimpse), they're wiped clean. [LSJ 20040726]

LSJ wrote: The ash heap, library, and crypt all "wash" the cards clean (except
for a memory of how they got there, in the case of the ash heap and
certain retrieval mechanisms).


So a vampire entering the ash heap and brought back forgets that they:

- became Anarch using the cardless action
- had their capacity reduced by Elixir of Distillation
- were made Camarilla Exemplary
- were chosen for The Rack
- had been "marked" using the Red List rule (unlikely to be hit without some annoying out-of-turn acting, but technically possible)
- had immunity to Blood Weakens
- couldn't be blocked by Anneke due to the Blood Bond card on her
The following user(s) said Thank You: extrala

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13 May 2013 09:21 #48463 by Pascal Bertrand
Correct answers from jamesatzephyr.

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