file Adopt a newbie

11 Dec 2013 03:20 #57642 by Prudent_Audacity
First, on the behalf of every newbie lurking this site for info but never took the time to write, I would like to thank you for your valuable contributions. You have no idea how this forum helped me understanding the game.

I am a newbie. But I believe a motivated one. This is my first card game (well... I think I played Freecell for Windows twice). Never played Magic, or any CCG, so the learning curve was steep. Never played any Vampire The Masquerade RPG, so the clans and disciplines were hard to understand. (Viscreatiwhat?!?).

I moved back to my hometown and joined friends for a game and was hooked. It has a great level of complexity and I decided to invest some time in the game. Bought pre-assembled decks on eBay (Barbed Wire) and played my first games. My friends are casual gamers, but serious players nevertheless, who started to play in 1996. So I was annihilated, of course. But I took notes. Analyzed what I loved from other decks, bought some booster packs on eBay and even decided to construct my own deck (a classic Ventrue Lawfirm deck) to experiment with politics. And last month, on my fourth game, I had my first VP.

Well... to make a story short, each December, my friends have a casual VTES Tournament and this year, I am on the guest list. Those "friends of friends" are more serious and... I need your help.

I have basic questions and if some would have answers to one or more of those questions it would be much appreciated.

1) With Dominate, what is the most effective bleed combo for a single attack? I read some theoretical discussion on pool gain, but not on bleed combo. I always found that Dominate is one of the most effective bleed machine and would like to be better with it.

2) If I understand correctly, a “Harass / Fast hands (CEL)” combo can be used to choose a tapped minion of my prey and steal his weapon even before the first strike. I find that move very effective, but read nothing about that kind of tactics. Is there a way to replace Harass with another card to make that combo more effective by stealing the best weapon on the table?

3) I came to understand that managing my own blood pool is the most important thing in that game. How many pool do you dedicate to your crypt? What are your favorite cards to obtain more pool or cards to transfer pool from the blood bank to my uncontrolled region?

4) Do you have a rule for your ratio of master cards?

5) Do you have a specific card that is almost always in your deck? I tend to always have blood dolls.

6) What are most the common mistakes beginners make?

Thank you,
Mark
The following user(s) said Thank You: D-dennis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2013 04:13 #57643 by Klaital
Replied by Klaital on topic Re: Adopt a newbie
Well its somewhat hard to answer all of your questions without having a specific deck to look at, but I will try.

1) The archetypical one is govern the unaligned + conditioning for total of +5 bleed, which is very card effective. Although its not always good idea to bleed for that much, especially early on in the game, I will go into that in more detail in point 6.

2) Well actually you steal it at first strike, not before that. First Strike is an actual game term, and I am not sure if you meant that or just before regular strikes. But that is not terribly effective, usually if you are going to rush someone, you want to do more than just steal their weapon. If you want to steal peoples weapons you can do it directly as an action without needing to go into combat also with certain cards (such as Mesmerize for dominate), or vampire specials (such as Alexis Sorokin or Konstantin, Baro of the Caravan). But as I said, stealing other peoples equipment is not terribly useful as a strategy, since you have no guarantee anyone will even have any equipment, and even if you do manage to steal some, how does that help you win? If you happen to be able to get some equipment while doing what your deck does anyway, then thats cool (like combat decks might have couple fast hands in them, or you might get the opportunity to diablerize a vampire with equipment).

3) There is really no one good answer to that, it all depends both on the deck your playing, and what your predator is playing. As you get more experienced in the game you learn to better read the table and decide what is safe amount in a given situation. As for favorite cards, Govern the Unaligned and Villein are probably the two most commonly used ones these days, Consanguineous Boon can also be very strong in right kind of decks.

4) That varies some depending on how fast your deck generally moves cards, (and also if you have multiple master phase actions, but thats a whole different topic so for this will assume only 1 master phase action per turn). For 90 card decks that move cards reasonably fast (like most combat decks) I generally try to stay at around 13-15 masters, while some that use less cards per turn going closer to 20 is an option, trifles I usually count as half of a master for these calculations.

5) Dreams of the Sphinx is one that you can put to pretty much any deck and make it better, I try to include a few copies whenever I have room in the master section. The Barrens is another similar card.

6) A very common mistake for beginners is to be too aggressive early in the game, and tunnel visioning on their prey without paying attention to the rest of the table. While you might get a vampire with superior dominate out turn 2 and be able to bleed your prey for 6 with govern + conditioning before he gets a vampire out, thats quite often not a good thing to do, because you generally want your prey to spend his own pool, bring out vampires, and do something to his prey, as the golden rule is that the player with no predator, wins.

So if you cripple your prey right away, without neseccarily being able to oust him that fast, it means he will not do anything to his prey, who will then become very strong, and while you will get 1 vp probably, its good chance you don't get any more and your grandprey wins. This is even more true for combat decks, if you just demolish your preys minions as they come out, he not only does nothing to his prey, but quite often simply stops influencing out new vampires and just sits on his pool, leaving you to bleed through a large amount of pool with probably not too much boost.

That is not the only bad thing coming from being too aggressive early either, another thing it does is it makes you look like a threat to the rest of the table, which might make others to take actions against you, and that is never a good thing, as you always prefer to be the seemingly harmless guy until you are ready to lunge. And third, your prey might have an Archon Investigation in hand and blow up your vampire. So in most cases, its better to use that govern at superior early in the game to get more guys out faster and cheaper.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Prudent_Audacity

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2013 04:37 #57644 by kombainas
Replied by kombainas on topic Re: Adopt a newbie
1) With Dominate, what is the most effective bleed combo for a single attack? I read some theoretical discussion on pool gain, but not on bleed combo. I always found that Dominate is one of the most effective bleed machine and would like to be better with it.

Since you stated "effective", than it would be solo Govern the Unaligned. It allows you to bleed for 3 at inferior for 1 card slot. Going above 3 has Archon Investigation-related risk attached, hence effectiveness drops.

2) If I understand correctly, a “Harass / Fast hands (CEL)” combo can be used to choose a tapped minion of my prey and steal his weapon even before the first strike. I find that move very effective, but read nothing about that kind of tactics. Is there a way to replace Harass with another card to make that combo more effective by stealing the best weapon on the table?

Please recall, that dodging, Immortal grapple (unlikely, given a deck using guns) would prevent you from stealing weapons. I'd say you better block to steel guns, since you choose your strike second (and would see if dodge was coming). To block anybody, you could use Eagle Sight. For a more offensive approach you could use Deep Song (it allows you to choose stuff 2nd, if not blocked).

3) I came to understand that managing my own blood pool is the most important thing in that game. How many pool do you dedicate to your crypt? What are your favorite cards to obtain more pool or cards to transfer pool from the blood bank to my uncontrolled region?

Blood and pool serves different purposes ;) . Usually you'd spend up to half of your initial pool towards crypt, with number depending on your pool regain mechanics effectiveness.

Can't say Blood Dolls/Vessels or Minion Tap/Villein are "favs", but they usually do the job, since regaining blood is easier, than pool.

Not every uncontrolled region acceleration card uses bank as the source of blood. Information Highway, Zillah's Valley are more speedwise effective.

4) Do you have a rule for your ratio of master cards?

I usually add 15ish %, triffles excluded, given standard 1 master phase action.

5) Do you have a specific card that is almost always in your deck? I tend to always have blood dolls.

Giant's Blood, Pentex Subversion. Monastery of Shadows, if crypt goes 8+ cap.

6) What are most the common mistakes beginners make?

Well, for myself, failing to see table dynamics could be seen as a common mistake which is happening less and less. E.g. do I bleed for 5 my prey who has a vamp with dom untapped, whose grandprey has 3 pool left? Do I really want to backrush at the given time? And similar. Your actions can have consequences, which work as a butterfly effect, usually against you ;)

!malk! :OBF: :DEM: :cel: :cap6: Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Prudent_Audacity

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2013 04:46 #57645 by TorranceCircle
Replied by TorranceCircle on topic Re: Adopt a newbie


4) Do you have a rule for your ratio of master cards?


Here is an article that provides some good deck ratio ideas.

legbiter.tripod.com/hf/theory.htm
The following user(s) said Thank You: Prudent_Audacity

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2013 08:33 #57647 by Juggernaut1981
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Adopt a newbie

6) What are most the common mistakes beginners make?

I tend to see a handful of common mistakes amongst the newer players in my group.

#1 You can let your prey play their game a bit. You don't need to be all over them like a rash. If you let them play their game a bit then they spend pool, and they chew up resources and the chew up the resources of the grand-prey. Wing them, not hamstring them. Let them be partly effective not fully effective. If you're going to smash your prey, you need to do it hard, fast, brutally and showing zero remorse. The only problem is that the other guys will quickly see that they are next.

#2 PREY IS LEFT. You got bled for 5 once. That stuff happens. Yes, it makes you paranoid. Yes it refocuses you away from your plans. Yes it changes your agenda somewhat. Never forget... PREY IS LEFT, VP IS LEFT, 6 POOL IS LEFT.

#3 Obliterating vampires is fun but if you can't kill the player you don't win the game. There are very few players anywhere that win games by obliterating every vampire on the table or every vampire that takes an action they can block. It just doesn't happen. It's not for a lack of trying. It's not for a lack of thinking about it. It's not for a lack of skill.

#4 If it is a biggish tournament, then you are entitled to play your least social, hardest killing, trump-iest, nasty deck you own.
#4a If you feel like letting the other guys know you understand its just a game, apologise before the game and accept their VP graciously. You'll enjoy your VTES, people are unlikely to think of you as a jerk and most people understand they were ousted because you could oust them.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
The following user(s) said Thank You: Prudent_Audacity

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2013 11:16 #57650 by Suoli
Replied by Suoli on topic Re: Adopt a newbie

#2 PREY IS LEFT. You got bled for 5 once. That stuff happens. Yes, it makes you paranoid. Yes it refocuses you away from your plans. Yes it changes your agenda somewhat. Never forget... PREY IS LEFT, VP IS LEFT, 6 POOL IS LEFT.


#2.1 Your target is the guy that will stop you from winning. Sometimes it's your prey, usually it's someone else.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Prudent_Audacity

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.073 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum