Submission: Melee weapon enhancers

Finesse

1
Requires a vampire with a melee weapon. Only playable before range is determined.
This round, only hand strikes or melee weapon strikes may be used if range is close, Grapple cards cost an additional blood, and hand strikes inflict one less damage.
As , but for the duration of this combat.
As , and maneuvers to long range cost an additional blood this round.

AaronC wrote:

Melee weapons still need an answer to S:CE. Potence is the natural adjunct to melee weapons, but Potence's answer to S:CE is Immortal Grapple, which doesn't go with melee weapons. Therefore you either need a melee weapon master or generic minion card that deals with S:CE like James's or you need a Potence card that allows a vampire to get past S:CE and strike with a melee weapon.

just spitballin' here but what about this:

Taunt ()

Only useable before range is determined. Requires a minion with a Melee weapon.

The opposing minion may not Strike: combat ends this round. this minion may burn one blood to extend the duration of this effect until the end of combat. a minion can only play one taunt per combat.

it's rough, don't get me wrong.... but it's an idea.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Maestro
Master: archetype. Trifle.
Put this card on a ready vampire you control. This vampire has +1 strength when striking with a melee weapon. In combat, if this vampire chooses a melee weapon strike and the opponent ends combat as a strike, you may tap this card (after combat ends) to deal two unpreventable damage to the opponent. A vampire may have only one archetype. [/color][/indent]

The hope was to give some anti-S:CE tech, without it being totally cookie cutter.

I think that's a good solution to a hard problem, since preventing SC:E altogether during a combat might just make combat near impossible to deal with for a lot of decks. Seems well-balanced (although it's absolute gold for Jaroslav Pascek).

A card to enter combat with no requirements its to powerful.
Yes, S:CE its a problem to all combat decks that are unable to use Psyche or Grapple cards.

You probably could create something like this to make S:CE more balanced:


Uncontrolled Hate

Gehenna. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
Put this card in play. Cards that end combat as a strike cost an additional blood to play. All minions can burn one blood or life to gain a press only usable to continue combat.

Now, regarding melee weapons...

More than new cards, IMHO we should first address the Bundi/immortal issue.

If you can use Bundi inside Immortal Grapple you should also be able to use:

Bang Nakh
Brass Knuckles
Black Gloves
Kali`s Fang

porphyrion wrote:

I think that's a good solution to a hard problem, since preventing SC:E altogether during a combat might just make combat near impossible to deal with for a lot of decks. Seems well-balanced (although it's absolute gold for Jaroslav Pascek).

not to mention elihu.

wesile wrote:

A card to enter combat with no requirements its to powerful.
Yes, S:CE its a problem to all combat decks that are unable to use Psyche or Grapple cards.

You probably could create something like this to make S:CE more balanced:


Uncontrolled Hate

Gehenna. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
Put this card in play. Cards that end combat as a strike cost an additional blood to play. All minions can burn one blood or life to gain a press only usable to continue combat.

Now, regarding melee weapons...

More than new cards, IMHO we should first address the Bundi/immortal issue.

If you can use Bundi inside Immortal Grapple you should also be able to use:

Bang Nakh
Brass Knuckles
Black Gloves
Kali`s Fang

Bundhi is useless if all of those get under grapple. Why the hell would i pay 2 for strength+1 when bang nakh is +2, and brass knuckles are the same bonus but not good with celerity for no cost? Not to mention agg under gapple with equipment is.... you know, agg..... and not from the standard sources. Mass reality with grappling ravnos and black gloves burns people outright without much effort.

But, maybe realizing pool cost for melee weapons is high and correcting that could have been done awhile ago.

Bundhi combo decks are the only non-wws melee weapons that really get used. Note, talbots chainsaw is just a weapon. So, safe to say things like bastard swords are too costly to consider.

Helpful cards, probably strikes with no discipline requirements, are most likely a good way to go.

All melee weapons cost 1 pool too much. However, even if that is corrected by mass errata, .44 Magnum is a better weapon. It does everything it needs by itself.

I don't think we need new cards for melee weapons. Celerity, Fortitude and Valeren* already have all the cards that make weapons better. How can you make a melee weapon a viable alternative to a gun by itself?

*Vengeance of Samiel should be free!

Dorrinal wrote:

All melee weapons cost 1 pool too much. However, even if that is corrected by mass errata, .44 Magnum is a better weapon. It does everything it needs by itself.

I don't think we need new cards for melee weapons. Celerity, Fortitude and Valeren* already have all the cards that make weapons better. How can you make a melee weapon a viable alternative to a gun by itself?

*Vengeance of Samiel should be free!

Ive never seen a situation where a 44 is less good than melee weapons. As i said, i have a deck using meat hook and 44. But anytime i build q non unique melee deck, id rather use 44s. Thats kindof a problem.

In real life, plainly a firearm is better than a stabbing impliment. In vtm, vamps take only bashing from bullets, and thats really the only reason i think melee should suck less. Lethal and bashing have no mechanic in vtes, but the principle should matter some.

As of now, the only non wws, non unique melee weapons to use are bundhis in combo decks, and stuff for making them agg with valeran or quietus. And wws is fine for those too.

Main Gauche - WWS would love to be paired with those in some ventrue stickman deck.

To boost melee weapons, you have to do it in both direct and idirect way.

Pawn shop still don't address main problem - getting them in first place. And you usually will be better with Ascendence.

Something to adress melee weapons directly:

Ancient Graveyard
Event
Transient
Any vampire may search his or her library for melee weapon as a +2 stealth action (pay cost as normal, shuffle, it's equip action). Vampires with capacity above 6 may burn 1 blood after this action in successful to untap. Put 1 counter after equiping weapon thanks to it, if 5 = burn this card.

Yeah, my wording is bit rusty but you get the idea