Card "starvation" bleed defence

So, I've had this idea rattling round in my head and sitting as a draft post for a while now, so I thought I'd finally post it.

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The other day a vague mechanical idea popped into my head which went something like:

The idea would be that it could be crafted to hurt repetitive bleeders (e.g. mass weenie bleed, stealth-bleed) that takes three, four, five bleed actions with Threats each turn a bit more than, say, a bruise-bleed deck that beats you up with some actions and then pushes a Govern+Conditioning through as its last action.

There are a bunch of obvious gaps: What type of card would you use it on? What would it require? Cost? Where I say [someone], would it be just your predator, or anyone who bleeds you? Action modifiers only, or actions too? Should it be - say - an action you put in play, or would it be a transient reaction? If it goes in play, should it stay in play for a fixed period of time, a certain number of bleeds, until the vampire it goes on (assuming that happened) goes to torpor? Perhaps a duration of X counters, where X = the cost of the card, or the number of a certain type of minion you control (a la Slave Auction)? All that sort of stuff is clearly totally up in the air.

My vague hunches are that it should go in play as an action that lasts until your next untap phase, or something like that - but it could be anything.

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To put the idea into some vague context for the sort of thing I was envisaging, and given the recent spate of Samedi suggestions, I vaguely toyed with something like:

The card should not burn during the untap phase. It should burn after N number of uses, like 2 or 3.

Also, it should be an action that untaps you as it's currently pretty much just a waste of blood and actions, which means you need a three discipline Force of Will/Daring the Dawn deck to bother wasting the space ... for the superior. The inferior is a way more powerful and versatile effect.

Very similar to Meddling of Semsith - and who better to play your first meddling on than your predator? I don't see why we it would hurt to have a similar effect for a clan/discipline that otherwise does not have strong defense.

Non-existant user wrote:

Choose another Methuselah. If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. Your hand size is one card smaller. The chosen Methuselah doesn't draw to replace cards during any Methuselah's minion phase. After each minion phase, he or she draws back up to his or her hand size. Any vampire may call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action.

Nice effect.

I'd perhaps suggest an alternative implementation for the superior could be a Unique Trifle costing one pool (and tap to use, burning a counter) with 5 counters, or 2 counters per Samedi when played etc.

Makes me think what another clan or discipline might utilize such an effect.


Filibuster
Requires a Ventrue Antitribue
Action/Reaction
Usable by a tapped Ventrue Antitribue. Only usable as a political action is announced. The political action (if any), reactions and action modifiers played by other players are not replaced until the end of the current turn minion phase.


Vermin Defense Network
Animalism
+1 Stealth Action.
Put this card in play. Your predator does not replace the first X minion cards he or she plays until the end of the current turn minion phase, where X is the number of counters on this card. During your untap phase add a counter to this card. Any vampire may burn this card a action.
As above, and place a counter on this card.

I can also see this as a Clan or Anarch card. Running on the idea that the target is hard to pin down. On top of Discipline ideas...

Clan Ideas for the card...
Note: I didn't quite decide on what the X should be, I wasn't sure if it would be a fixed number OR a burn X blood to get X counters or a capacity-driven mechanic.

Its a Jungle Out There
Reaction
Gangrel/!Gangrel
1 blood
Put this card in play with X counters on it. When a minion is bleeding you, you may burn a counter from this card to cause that minion not to replace action modifiers for the remainder of the action.

Remote Homeland
Action
Samedi/Harbingers/Nagaraja(?)
1 blood
+1 stealth. Untap if this action is unblocked. Put this card in play with X counters on it. When a minion is bleeding you, you may burn a counter from this card to cause that minion not to replace action modifiers for the remainder of the action.

Like Roaches in the Light
Reaction
Ani/Obf/For
1 blood
Requires an anarch. Only playable when your predator is acting. The acting minion does not replace cards they play until the action is blocked or after it resolves. Effect goes here, effect goes here, Effect goes here.

@Juggernaut

"for the remainder of the action" makes the cards wallpaper. Should be until the end of the current minion phase.

Yeah, maybe instead make it "Does not replace cards for the rest of the action" or "Do not replace action modifiers played by the acting minion until the end of the minion phase".

The second one seems quite harsh. The first one does turn up on a Gehenna card (Blood Weakens?)

@juggernaut

First of all, consistency is important. The concept of "card starvation" is already present in Meddling of Semsith. If you want to add similar effects, make them all the same so that it is less confusing.

Second of all, yes, this kind of card denial is harsh. But your card ideas cost blood and (often overlooked) space in a deck with a lower opportunity cost. If it's only for the current action it's not worth the space in the deck, nevermind the blood cost.

There are two effects out there...

Meddling of the Semsith
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=1095
Choose another Methuselah. If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. Your hand size is one card smaller. The chosen Methuselah doesn't draw to replace cards during any Methuselah's minion phase. After each minion phase, he or she draws back up to his or her hand size. Any vampire may call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action.

Blood Weakens
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=1287
Gehenna. Do not replace until a vampire commits diablerie.
Cards minions play in an action that require any Disciplines are not replaced until the end of the current action or until any Methuselah's hand is empty (whichever comes first). Any vampire who commits diablerie is immune to this effect until the next Gehenna card is played.


Meddling of the Semsith has a number of hurdles: getting it into play, playing your own hand with 6 cards being the first two. It also has a burn-clause. For those you get probably one of the harshest hand-interfering effects in the game.

Blood Weakens is generally irritating enough an effect. Getting it into play isn't difficult, but everyone pays the penalty while not huge. Oh and from playing a no-Discipline deck using Blood Weakens, it jerks around with people's game pretty hard without stopping people from using non-Discipline cards.


So, going for a Semsith-type card denial I think is too harsh. I'd sit much more comfortably with variations of Blood Weakens than Semsith. Blood costs are changable, that sort of stuff comes out in the play-testing wash...