Vidal vs. The grandest trick!?

Hi folks

We had a rules discussion on the german vekn forum about the following point:

Can Vidal jarbeuax recruit a harzomatuili (requiring an Archbishop or Cardinal) when using the grandest Trick? In other words: Is the trait "requires Archbishop" equal to "requires a vampire". Imho no, because it is not stated so exactly in the rulebook and allies can "mimic" diffenrent traits that otherwise are available only to vampires by default (e.g. like Grey Thorne using Anarch cards or Herald of topeth using presence or potence at basic level)

Vidal Jarbeaux
Clan: Toreador (group 5)
Capacity: 8
Disciplines: PRE aus cel obf pot
Camarilla: Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire trait (e.g., anarch) requirement to play any card. He can meet a given requirement only once each game. +1 bleed.


Grandest Trick, The
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Kiasyd
Cost: 2 blood
Only usable when an action is announced.
Vampires cannot block this minion. This acting vampire is treated as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, etc.). This vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't cost blood or require a vampire, clan or Discipline. Burn option.

Thx for help

Mateusz wrote:

Hi folks

We had a rules discussion on the german vekn forum about the following point:

Can Vidal jarbeuax recruit a harzomatuili (requiring an Archbishop or Cardinal) when using the grandest Trick? In other words: Is the trait "requires Archbishop" equal to "requires a vampire".

"Not for his special" (similarly, for his special, "requiring a baron" is different from "requiring an anarch"). [LSJ 20081124]

floppyzedolfin wrote:
> 5/ Now, the stupid one : Is " vampire" a non-infernal vampire trait ?

No.

> So, now, the stupid example : Vidal uses his cardtext to play The
> Grandest Trick, the action being, say, a bleed. His special cardtext
> still applies : Vidal (the ally) can meet the clan, sect, or non-
> infernal vampire trait requirements to play a card.
> He plays a !Nosferatu-requiring (Gang Tactics, for instance) card. If
> the answer to the question 5/ (the stupid one) is "yes", Vidal faking
> to be a vampire when he fakes to be an ally cannot play a !Ventrue-
> requiring (Innocent Bystander, for instance) card any more.

You lost me.

He can bleed and play Grandest Trick and then Gang Tactics. (Or the other way
'round).
If the bleed is successful, then he can play Innocent Bystander.

Pascal wrote:

Mateusz wrote:

Hi folks

We had a rules discussion on the german vekn forum about the following point:

Can Vidal jarbeuax recruit a harzomatuili (requiring an Archbishop or Cardinal) when using the grandest Trick? In other words: Is the trait "requires Archbishop" equal to "requires a vampire".

"Not for his special" (similarly, for his special, "requiring a baron" is different from "requiring an anarch").

Does that mean yes, Vidal can recruit Harzomatuili with TGT or no, he can't.

Sorry that I'm confused. I thought if a card requires an Archbishop you can't do the Grandest Trick, because that card prohibits you playing cards that requires vampires.

LSJ wrote at 03-12-2001 on a question from Jason Liang in the newsgroup (emphasis added by me):
> 2. The Grandest Trick states: Only usable on an ation that doesn't cost
> blood or require a vampire, clan or Discipline. Can the action be one
> that requires a non- clan specific title, such as Eternal Vigilance or War Party?
> Does the vampire lose his/ her titles during the action?

No.
Yes.

--
LSJ () V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Sorry for the confusion.
Vidal cannot play The Grandest Trick on a Harzomatuili action (TGT's cardtext and the ruling you provided).