Polishing VtES - refining crypts and removing grouping

BenPeal wrote:

elotar wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote:

With a probable Cam set on the horizon...

You have any reliable information about it?

www.vekn.net/2-uncategorised/379-vampire-elder-kindred-network-newsletter-august-2017

It's a new .pdf set, not some reprints+ like anthology, as I got from RR post. I see no way how I can be help there, if my opinion is that main problem is too many cards

elotar wrote:

I'm still convinced that present overbloated state of the game is a significant problem to returning it to print as well as bad for the game in general. And until it'll be solved the problems with maintaining both growing player community as well as product availability will be persisting regardless of the game status.

So I've decided that best way to approach the issue is not to pointlessly discuss it, but actually make "polished version of VtES".

Well, we have some precedents. Game of thrones card game rebooted itself in 2015 by introducing its second edition. GoT first edition (launched 2002) was suffering from the kind of bloatedness that you describe, and was difficult to approach by new players. Fantasy flight games rebooted the game into something that was notably NOT backwards compatible with the old game. As far as I know, the new version seems to be doing fine (I don't play it, but Ive seen tournaments of it in facebook). The second edition however, contains much of the same game mechanics as the old one, enough to be easily approachable by old players also. Developers merely removed the parts that didn't work and introduced some new ones, as far as I know.

In a similar fashion, Netrunner card game from the 90s (which was assuredly dead, much deader than VTES) was rebooted into a new version of the game, Android: netrunner, in 2012. It also changed its mechanics slightly and is not backwards compatible. A:Netrunner is doing definitely well. Theres been a handful of official tournaments per year with official prizes (alternate art cards, playmats and the like).

So these are the games I know with successful reboots, which we might want to try to emulate if we wish the best for VTES.

Bloodartist wrote:

So these are the games I know with successful reboots, which we might want to try to emulate if we wish the best for VTES.

As I see maintaining backwards compatibility is not really a problem (unless you are a FFG and want to rip of players). In my view the process is quite easy - list of cards with most resent wordings is made available (online), so owners of old cards have to reference it during play (as it happens now with errated cards), and new cards (reprints) are published at any acceptable schedule and form with most resent wordings.

Strategic depth and history is, as I see, one of the main strength of VtES. Going FFG LCG "style" with start of very limited pool and slow crawl to mature state by gradually introducing small sets of new cards during a decade is terrible. I doubt that I will be playing such a game.

Idea to polish the game is not to reboot it completely, opposite of that - it's too make other options manageable. By now anybody thinking of returning the game to print have to decide between making it backward compatible and having to find a way to make ~3700 available to the new players or just drop all of it and reboot. Nobody sane will choose the first option.

I'm trying to introduce a third way.

So Ventrue

Will try to aim for the same ratios, as in malkavian cards:

2 for both subclans:

1. Corporate HG - looks more cool to me

2. Ventrue Investment
Master. Investment.
Put this card in play with 1 blood on it for each Ventrue antitribu you control. You may use a master phase action to move 1 blood from this card to your pool. Burn this card if it has no blood.

By the way Investments, as well as CyberPunk are two themes, which can be explored in a new camarilla set. They can be "weaved" together by a some "Cryptocurrency scam" card.

5 6 cards for "camarilla ventrue":

3. Ephor
Put this card on a Ventrue with capacity 8 or more. This Ventrue gets +1 intercept and 1 additional vote. This Ventrue may force any vampire to yield a contested camarilla title as a +1 stealth action.

4. Hostile Takeover

5. Island of Yarros
Type: Master
Requires: Ventrue
Cost: 2 pool
Master: unique location.
You may lock this card to give a camarilla vampire you control +X strength for one strike, where X is the number of votes the vampire has (e.g., a prince gets +2 strength).

6. Ventrue Directorate...
Type: Master
Requires: Camarilla
Cost: 2 pool
Master.
Put this card in play. Each ready Ventrue gets an additional vote during political actions. This card may be burned by any minion as a action; Brujah get +1 stealth when attempting that action.

7. Ventrue Headquarters

8. Political Ally

2 cards for sabbat
9. Demonstration
It's actually nearly the same as headquaters

9. Framing an Ancient Grudge

10. Recruiting Party
Type: Action
Requires: Ventrue
Each Ventrue antitribu sabbat vampire in your uncontrolled region gains 1 blood from the blood bank.

The only significant card which was "lost" - Political Ally. It's quite unplayable, but cool thematically. It can be just added as 11th card, or, preferable to me - putted into place of Hostile Takeover (which should be banned on the same grounds as ToGP). But before that HT has to stay in the pool.

Update: Removed Recruiting Party - it's a dumb card in a clan, which has access to GtU

Brujah

Both subclans
1. Amusement Park HG - Lost Boys reference FTW!


Camarilla

2. Brujah Debate
What will happen if BD will became available to the subbat? Nothing?

3. Cartage Remembered
Type: Master
Requires: Brujah
Cost: 1 pool
Master.
Put this card in play. Brujah princes and Brujah justicars Titled Brujah get +1 stealth on bleed actions. Any minion may burn this card as a action; Ventrue and Malkavians get -1 stealth on that action.

4. New Cartage


5. Arms Dealer - Ally theme for new camarilla set comes to mind. B) Maybe then we can think about brujah allies, which was there from the beginning and was sucking all this time

Sabbat

6. Dogs of War
Type: Political Action
Requires: Brujah antitribu sabbat
If this referendum passes, put this card in play. Any Brujah antitribu may enter combat with a ready minion as a action. You may burn this card to cancel a blood hunt called on a Brujah antitribu. Any vampire may call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action.

7. Gang Territory
Type: Master
Requires: Brujah antitribu Sabbat
Cost: 2 pool
Master: unique location.
During your influence phase, lock to move 1 blood from the blood bank to a Brujah antitribu in your uncontrolled region.

8. Spoils of War

9. Waste Management ...

10. Unexpected Coalition
Unexpected Coalition
Type: Action Modifier/Reaction
Requires: Brujah antitribu Sabbat
Only usable during a referendum.
Each ready Brujah antitribu gets an additional vote this referendum. When tallying results, if any Brujah antitribu cast any votes or ballots in opposition to this Brujah antitribu's votes or ballots (or if this Brujah antitribu abstains), none of the additional votes from this card are counted.

Some interesting interaction with brujah crypt appears - was pressed to switch couple cam. brujas for sabbat ones to allow Unexpected Coalition deck after deciding to keep it in the pool.

Logic "more camarilla cards" was dropped here because of much needed help for antitribu of this clan.

After some thought idea to go "Eldest are kholo" way (having both clan and sect requirements for a card) was looking more and more cumbersome. In a limited crypt it'll be terribly boring.

So will try to make cards accessible to clans as a whole or to change to the "non parasitic scheme" presented earlier - requires [clan] -> vampires of [sect] got [effect].