ATTENTION! IMPORTANT!

mipopo3 wrote:

Doing some basic background checks, one can see that I exist as a registered player.
And have tournament involvement.
So am not sure if is this a racist thing or if the combined IQ is lover than the room temperature.

There's the report this post button if you feel forum rules have been broken.

If you feel people are being racist in VEKN forums, feel free to use the proper procedures VEKN has put in place with their code of ethics available here;

www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/VEKN_Code_of_Ethics.pdf

In case people cannot be bothered to read said documentation they've been placed under simply by being a VEKN member, here might be the relevant parts;

"...The following is a list of examples of actions and behaviour that are considered un-
ethical. It is not intended to be exhaustive. Any action or behaviour that is inconsistent
with the principles of fair play, good sporting, honesty, or respect for the rights and
well-of others may be considered to fall within the scope of this code of ethics.
...
• submitting a falsified tournament report;
• offering insult, slur, or other language that is derogatory towards an entire class
of people based on their race, ethnicity, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disa-
bility, class, religion, age, or other self-identified or imputed identity to any
person, present or not present, at the event;
• defaming the character of a VEKN member, either by slander or libel;
..."

That document outlines the procedure on what to do when ethics issues arise. As there is no "have public circlejerk over issue while not contacting orgplay {a} blackchantry.com" step on it, I saw no reason to partake or continue this discussion at proper depth until there's been attempt to use proper channels by the parties who feel they've been affected and they've been declined said routes in breach of CoE.

Your latest reply made me ponder whether or not your NC has informed you of that document as you could have raised your issue of "Serbian NC being threatened" via that route almost a month ago. Not to mention this latest racist question. I'm sure quite few of the people here assumed Serbian NC raised this issue via proper channels and it was just being handled in the commmittee as that is the procedure. It is after all the reasonable and rational thing that adults do when they see rules being broken, they follow the rules as two wrongs do not make a right.

Incidentally it is also how the matter in the OP should have proceeded in the first place, then again without properly quantified requirements, training and motivation to learn, how can VEKN NC's know about the existence of Code of Ethics put into place to solve issues like this. It's not like there was multiple attempts to highlight it over the years. One would assume people representing organisation on national level would understand the organisation they're representing and it's rules or at least have motivation to do the required research on it that amounts to clicking all links in the "Rules" section of the site and reading what follows. For some it's much easier to be like me, a common plebeian ignorant and rambling endlessly, wasting people's time with one wall of text after another.

As I'm writing this I have to wonder, if Serbian NC did not raise it, and if you have not either while knowing about the Code of Ethics, especially after this reply of mine, is there perhaps a reason and if there is, what it could be. I might never know, yet another of those mysteries of the internets...

Until someone raises the issue via CoE, this is all like fart in Sahara, just waiting to disappear into the wastes. Unfortunately for some, it has left brown panties in a twist. Perhaps to prevent future brown panties, some forum tool usage towards this thread is required. Affected individuals can start a new one if the CoE path is denied and then I'm sure all moderators are more then happy to merge it to this one to continue the discussion.

Hi Kilrauko,

I see no entry on TWDa records being destroyed as a course of action.

I can't speak ono Serbia NC's actions, in what he did or did not do.
But TWDa records have been destroyed.
NC is not banned from tournaments.
This was done by the Site moderator and BCP employee, so I do not see how the process is followed as described in the linked document, and no such sanction is set in the rules.

Regarding my case:
For now am not sure are Lönkka and Alf are racist or just unable to differentiate Serbia NC and Others from Serbia.
Thus, I am unable to move forward with a complaint, as there is no clear cut that can be substantiated.

For those that did miss the main point:

smeeag wrote:

>The next question on the subject is who is next to be removed?
The next question on the subject is who is next volunteer to maintain TWDA *better*.

I did a reply on it with an image and posted:

mipopo3 wrote:

Slow replies on the subject, shame.

For now, as I know, there is more than 1 tournament with less than 10 players that are on TWDa (17 in total).
That is against rules that state that no tournament with less than 10 players will be on TWDa.
So who is going to resolve that?

mipopo3 wrote:

Hi Kilrauko,

I see no entry on TWDa records being destroyed as a course of action.

I can't speak ono Serbia NC's actions, in what he did or did not do.
But TWDa records have been destroyed.
NC is not banned from tournaments.
This was done by the Site moderator and BCP employee, so I do not see how the process is followed as described in the linked document, and no such sanction is set in the rules.

Regarding my case:
For now am not sure are Lönkka and Alf are racist or just unable to differentiate Serbia NC and Others from Serbia.
Thus, I am unable to move forward with a complaint, as there is no clear cut that can be substantiated.

Very astute of you to notice that TWDa is not mentioned in the pdf. It could indicate that the TWDa is not something that is VEKN related. In fact what VEKN does is listed under 1.4 here www.vekn.net/v-ekn-faq .

Now if you're just now realizing this and wish to contact the site admin related to what happens at www.vekn.fr/decks/twd.htm you're unfortunately at the wrong site. It's easy to mistake the *.net and *.fr top level domain difference if you're not internet savvy or just in a hurry. As it's third party site, VEKN really has no say on what happens *.fr outside the possible criminal issues or copyright breaches that hopefully will never happen. Just as the VEKN has no say if you decide to start www.vekn.rs with it's own TWDa and national forums. Might want to jump quickly tho, with it's low low cost of 10 € a year to park it, who knows what kind of content someone could put on there.

As for the process you've listed, I'm assuming you're still not understanding that the Code of Ethics requires active participation from you and/or from the NC depending on the matter. After all it specifically mentions how the committee might choose to start on their own but, and I quote; "This process should be exceedingly rare, but may be required to address egregious ethics violations occurring outside the purview of sanctioned events." If they've not started any process now, it's clearly not egregious ethic violation as this is the official forum and they've most certainly seen posts and replies on this nearly month old thread. This however does not prevent you personally from sending email and following the process.

Allow me to explain the pdf process in three easy steps via google translate (I'll link it bit later, just in case you've not used it before as it could help understand the documents, posts and other things posted here better.) For the other and future users, I'll provide the english version in case people ever find themselves in similar situation and are unsure what the the process is. translate.google.com/ has taken leaps forward, so feel free to use to translate the three steps to your native language.

1. Осећате се као да вам је учињена неправда. <- Овде сте.
2. Контактирате комисију путем е-поште и објасните свој проблем. <- Ово би требало да урадите уместо да објављујете овде.
3. Они ће истражити да ли постоји проблем или сте само збуњени шта је ВЕКН проблем, а шта није. <- Ово је решење проблема.

Aka
1. You feel like you've been wronged. <- You are here.
2. You contact the committee via email and explain your issue. <- This is what you should do instead posting here.
3. They'll investigate if there is issue or if you're just confused on what is VEKN issue and what is not. <- This is the resolution to the issue.

Mind you that three parter is related to the potential issues at hand and discussed here. In a possible future case, people need to consult the CoE pdf, check if it has been changed and then proceed accordingly.

As for the previous posters and that whole thing, yes, being unable to move forward with a complaint could be a thing. In fact it could backfire as calling someone something they are not that could harm their reputation is the definition of slander, or клевета. Which is against the Code of Ethics when done during VEKN related activities, which this very forum is part of by the definition of VEKN FAQ, Forum Guidelines and CoE. If you're unsure, remember the "It is not intended to be exhaustive." part of the CoE's example cases. It's one thing to shout at the wind in third party sites, here VEKN rules and codes apply. Whether or not calling someone a deranged, racist fits that definition is up to the context. Is it friendly but crude banter or is it serious discussion on very serious topic plays huge part. Now I'm sure if you feel that you've been mistaken you'll take the appropiate actions and let the persons in question know what the context was, push forward with the previous viewpoint of yours or just let the matter be. I'm a stranger in the internet that types walls of text while listening to music and watching tv while pondering how I can make my Pieterzoon deck not suck more in 2024.

I hope people will continue to treat each others with the respect they rightly deserve here and assume the best instead the worst from people. For things that happen in other sites, well, any issues need to be raised there as, well, the previous fart in the sahara analogue applies. For TWDa, Bon Voyage on moving this issue to www.vekn.fr/forum/ I truly wish you all the luck to get the matter solved there. You should be able to bring matters of participant numbers, TWDa rule disparities and other such matters related to it up there as well.

Nice logic, but it's missing one key fact.
All communication was on this forum, not on French.

Added Edit, do not wish to add more unnecessary posts:

Once more I will not speak on what NC did, am not NC, nor can I take his place in the matter.
But all TWD records for this forum, are not on other forums.
Suggesting that TWD records need to be addressed in other locations is not in the manner it is in use now. Due to the fact all records from this forum are set on the same TWD, make that comment mute.