Path of the Void + Infernal

Haze wrote:

if you do it in the opposite order, you will pay 1 pool to untap the Infernal, and then you must choose how to pay the Path! you might waste 1 pool or a master card you needed. this might be questioned in a tournament game, so be sure to announce it in the proper order.

If you first pay 1 pool and then decide to trigger the untap phase effect of the path, you will have the only choice of tap your infernal vampire or discard a master.

You CAN'T pay an other pool to untap your infernal (this is an "only once").

For further clarification, even if you allways trigger the "untap infernal effect" and the path of the void effect, it may cost you pool :
you don't have to pay to untap an allready untaped infernal (so un untapped infernal costs nothing) but if your infernal is untapped AND have a path of the void on him, you will have to discard a master or tap him so you will then have to pay for untapping him (so an untap infernal with a path on him cost you 1 pool or a master in hand).

Let's say you have a Path of the Void on Cybele (she's infernal).


Remember that effects (not costs, just effects) can tap tapped minions, and can untap untapped minions.

If you want Cybele untapped during your master phase, you need at least to either discard a Master card (Path of the Void) or burn 1 pool (Infernal Rule).

In this situation, it is always better to apply Path of the Void's effect first (and tap Cybele or discard Master card), because choosing not to untap untapped minions with Infernal Rule is free.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

It actually depends on the timing of the "Pay 1 pool". If it must be done in the same time window as the standard "untap your cards" then it must be done before you can use other effects.

A: Must pay 1 pool per infernal in the same "untap your cards" windows. Result is that Path of the Void will tap you later if you don't discard.

B: Bypass usual "untap your cards" window because of Infernal. Result is that you may sequence them as you please.


So it really comes down to...

Pascal,
Must you declare and pay for the untapping of Infernal Minions in the same time frame as you untap the non-infernal cards you control or not?

No. It used to be the case until KMW , but, now, untapping infernal minions during your untap phase is merely one of the "during your untap phase" effects (so you can order it with other such effects - for instance, gaining 1 pool for having the Edge).

Lazoth wrote:

Yes the infernal rule gets around effects that say doesn't untap as normal [Sensory Derivation, Rotschreke, etc]

How ever this a must do X or tap this vampire effect. My question is based on the Must discard or tap clause. So if i have a master card in hand would i have to discard or do i get the option to not discard and tap the currently tapped vampire. Which would allow me to then untap using the infernal rule.

It's "Must [discard or tap]" rather than "[must discard] or tap".
You don't have to discard a Master to Path of the Void if you want to tap the vampire it's on.

Thank you, it is what I thought but wanted to make sure because of the Must section.

Should make one of my Baali decks a bit easier to get things through light permacept.