salubri grouping

This may seem redundant and unnecessary to many people, but while deciding on the grouping of a spirit marionette deck, a thought occurred to me:

the salubri are probably the one clan in the whole game with one superior group configuration.
this can arguably be said about the samedi as well, but not as easily.

so, just for fun and nothing else, i decided to rank the ten existent salubri from best to worst, and see if anyone else agrees with my opinions.

1. Matthias is pound for pound one of the best blockers in the game. at 7, he's a fat midcap vamp with standing +1 intercept big FOR and AUS, making him a great wall deck/stickman/!ventrue companion. and he has big obeah, for marionetting or renewing vigor as needed. and nec, if anyone would ever bother using it. also, his baali hosing txt is i'm sure useful one in roughly 47 games or something like that.

2. Saulot is, story wise, one of the coolest vamps there is, and vtes wise, a very fun allstar to build a deck around. he's just good and toolboxy, and while matthias and his support cast of salubri are in more decks in the twda, saulot is an 11cap that can win tournaments in an allstar deck. statline of 2's and special text that doesn't infuriate anyone (other than maybe that off the wall baali disarm deck trying to fight him...) make just make him multi-dimensional in his uses.

3. Blanch hill is probably my personal favorite of the clan, but thats got less to do with her as a vamp and more to do with my style of play. she works great with minion tapping large vamps each turn just to have her fill them back up, freakdrive, hunt, untap, and still have an action. even with small aus, she can block and punish minions with sticks or guns and prevent/press with FOR. she's just a very good 6 cap.

4. Eurayle is the ultimate helper. she can renew vigor, she can untap someone, she can block just like most stickman vamps can, and she can spirit marionette. she is just very useful as a support vamp, and i've used her with mata hari, stickmen, and in combo decks with !ventrue. lots of utility.

5. this is where it gets dicey. Serena the White was my favorite vamp out of HttB, and would have been way better if g5. her special is awesome for defense, she has support disciplines which are fine as support disciplines, and she's just a great fatty for attrition strategies as well as normal salubri things.

6. i tried to ignore grouping and focus on just the vampires, but grouping really hoses the g6 crowd. so, number 5 on my list is Miriam. she's a great helper vamp, and has the right spread for wall decks to use her. she's no Matthias, but she is a Billy that trades dom for neat helping hand type of text.

7. Nahum would be higher if he were any other group. he's a hunting ground, and he has OBF and VAL, so he can help get whatever actions off, and even makes a nice buddy for !salubri. unfortunately, his only niche that isn't otherwise done better by another vamp, is supporting g5-6 !salubri, which isn't a bad thing for him, but in a clan of ultimate supporting vamps, being the biggest vampire in the only deck you can support lets others outshine you.

8. Matthew would be fine if any of a number of things were different, just as vampires from the start of the game are 'almost good'. if he were another group, or a 6cap with no cel and one of the 3 sects, or an 8-9 cap magagi, he would be awesome. if he were a 7 cap magagi with no cel and little aus, he'd still be alot better than he is. but he's the clans Dolphin black, in a grouping where it doesn't matter that he's there. he may be great, if g6 gets enough love, but for now, he's not so hot...

9. Mr. Noir avoids being last just because he was a supporting vamp in decks that win tournaments. he's a weenie with for, which is cool, but little obeah isn't that great, unless you're really concerned about your allies and think vagabond mystic isn't as useful as little renewed vigor. he's just ok. if he weren't scarce, he'd be better than matthew just because you could flip him late game and not burn pool. just ok.

10.Obaluaye is a 5 cap with big FOR with +1 stealth when hunting. most of my midcap FOR decks aren't group 5, and i like the kikiyoan way better than this vamp anyway. neither obe or aus are anything to write home about, and without ani, the abo makes me avoid him even for akunanse decks. and maybe he could be that awesome 4th vamp in an all salubri renew n cap g5-6 deck? no, he burns if he's invited to the party. i suppose you can clan impersonate, but wow, its not that good of a hypothetical deck, and he only has little obe anyway. i don't hate this card, and may eventually use him. but he's just not that great in a clan with some really great vamps.

i'm seeign g2 just being full of the better salubri.
ok, theres my list, tear me down if you want. thoughts?

For the salubri especially, the stand alone classification is meaningless for me. You can't play only Salubri, so the group of a Neighbor John or whatever vampire you want to stick them with count a lot. Matthias vs Matthew is an excellent example : the difference of the two is often minimal, but the grouping are very different (not in the favor of gr6, since the !ventrue are not too present in gr5)

It also largely depend on the role you need for them. Mr. Noir for example have more than enough skill to be a good blood doll that can trash block or tap vampire for very cheap. He or Miriam can often be way better than Matthias simply because they are fitted to role that Matthias is too expensive to fill.

As with rankings usually, I would've loved to read the order from the worst to best - it adds to keeping the tension.

Other than that, this one was a fair enough read. Listings like these are pretty cool and usually enjoyable to read. I think you kept a good balance with subjective point of view and objective register. Without some grammatical misgivings this would be a good example of a very decent fan-made review.

I'm personally a huge fan of Serenna the White, but still I think that Nahum would rank higher than her. His special is very good, and the only thing he lacks is a support gang coherent enough. Serenna works wonders with Malkavians, I've gathered.

Anyways, a nice job!

I would personally rate all the group 6 salubri higher than Saulot, and definetily higher than Miriam. Saulot's discpline spread is just way too weird to find him any decent support, and Nahum is just better than he is for everything except fighting. Also I find it really weird you rank Matthew so much lower than Matthias even though they are almost identical, and basic celerity being arguably more useful off-clan discpline than necromancy.

Klaital wrote:

I would personally rate all the group 6 salubri higher than Saulot, and definetily higher than Miriam. Saulot's discpline spread is just way too weird to find him any decent support, and Nahum is just better than he is for everything except fighting. Also I find it really weird you rank Matthew so much lower than Matthias even though they are almost identical, and basic celerity being arguably more useful off-clan discpline than necromancy.

I would agree where it comes to Matthew. And shouldn't he get some props for his low cost Master cards?

Saulot's discpline spread is just way too weird to find him any decent support

Well, he has THA/AUS which combo's nicely with any sort of Tremere and as added bonus some of the Obeah cards have playable dominate or auspex outferiors.

He can team up nicely with !Ventrue as well, going off of AUS/FOR and the same added bonus applies with the dominate outferiors, and you even get some fortitude outferiors to work with.

Him having VAL means you can make him the centerpiece of a block-focused !Salubri deck. You can then just get your entire crypt out for free using his special and defending your Rack and Montreal with Hide the Hearts (and his AUS of course).

I admit the Daimonion is a bit weird, but he shares like, a ton of disciplines with Nergal (plus outferiors) and Valerius Major (!Tremere) comes with DAI as well.

I think he can team up pretty well.