question-circle What should be done with Reversal of Fortune?

12 Apr 2012 10:26 - 12 Apr 2012 10:27 #27733 by Pendargon
I completely agree that it is utterly unfun sitting at the same table with reversal deck.

However, in all my years, i have seen it actually ONCE, and then it did not win.

However, at almost EVERY tournament i go there is AT LEAST one stupid una freakshow, that is for me EVEN MORE unfun to sit at the same table with, as at lest reversal deck constantly does something and is, at least to me, that one time, interesting to watch it move, and eventually, in my case, break down.

With Una, it is even more boring,- something-freak-hunt-freak-hunt-freak-equip-freak-rush-freak-something-freak... for a good 30-50 minutes ..

It is also exactly the opposite of what vtes should be, and Una actually wins tournaments and plays finals on regular basis, yet i haven't seen 6 pages long discussion over it is ok to ban Una...?

That is all i am trying to say.

:QUI: :POT: :OBE: :CEL: :OBF: :tore: :assa:
Last edit: 12 Apr 2012 10:27 by Pendargon.

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12 Apr 2012 10:39 #27734 by alf
Yeah, and btw, while we're at it:
Ban Turbo-X.
Ban Weenie Potence.
Ban Weenie Dementation.
Ban Weenie Presence.
Ban Weenie Auspex.

All of those can be of varying un-fun as prey or predator and really wreck your game.
So where do you stop before basically heading towards:
Ban X, where X = (makes my game un-fun).

If my playgroup had stopped playing certain stuff whenever someone had a certain amount of un-fun we'd be playing 4CL or preconstructed starters at most.

If players judge their tournament experience after 1 participation, hell, their choice.
Off Topic:
I defenitly wouldn't drink any beer nowadays if I had stopped trying after the first time ;-)

Alf

<INSERT CLEVER QUOTATION HERE>
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka

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12 Apr 2012 10:41 #27735 by Chaitan
Although I agree with most of what Izaak wrote I just have to point out that people who cry foul might claim unbalanced, broken or unfun first time they see cards like Mind Rape, No Secrets from Magaji, Baltimore Purge, Sensory Deprivation, Corruption, Temptation, Form of Corruption, Shatter the Gates, Shattering Crescendo, Enkil Cog (to name a few) also.

The shock effect some cards/decks cause for an untrained or easily swayed person could force a strong reaction.

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12 Apr 2012 11:14 #27736 by Poci
This is pointless. The RoF is so rarely encountered that it's not a need to be banned.

The Una deck can be stopped several ways, and rarely wins tournaments. Generally, it only win tables where the players, his predator and prey let it slip away. If it stopped early, then it usually a free VP or just sits there doing nothing for an hour.
If Una gets banned or errata, then many cards should get one (Baltimore Purge, for example).

About Tupdog, I see nothing seriously wrong. Yeah, it's insanely good, but not broken. The game was fine with it since it came to light, and now it seen rarely as a before, mainly just for some support is nephandus, rock cat decks. A few years ago, the ban would've been more valid than nowadays.

If the players you mentioned did what you said, then it's their problem. They were not committed to the game, if 2 bad rounds turned them away form it.
I've never played with this decks, so I'm not against the changes because I have 15+ tupdogs for the ridiculous amount of money the cost (actually I have none, but would be seriously pissed if I would be one with that many...)
I just simply against it because this cards not worthy a ban/errata. Succubus Club, PTO, Edge Explosion was. Villein was worthy of an errata. This cards are simply just as good as they are now.

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12 Apr 2012 12:05 - 12 Apr 2012 12:30 #27739 by Izaak

The Una deck can be stopped several ways, and rarely wins tournaments.


Wrong on both accounts. It's not easy to stop and requires some bad luck on Una's part. It also *does* win a tournaments somewhat regularly.

About Tupdog, I see nothing seriously wrong. Yeah, it's insanely good, but not broken.


Ye see, this is the problem. It's not insanely good. It's broken. It's rush combat without the usual caveats combat has, which I all mentioned earlier. It usually makes other people win randomly and causes games to be shit. Just like the old Anarch Revolt did, which got fixed for that reason alone.

Ban Turbo-X.
Ban Weenie Potence.
Ban Weenie Dementation.
Ban Weenie Presence.
Ban Weenie Auspex.


Again, there is a difference between RoF, Tupdog and Una and all the other hate decks people are throwing up here: with all these decks you can actually *interact*. Sure, you may get destroyed but at least you can ya know, try and block, bounce, take an action or two, talk crosstable, get rescues, etc etc. And in the worst case scenario, you actually get *gasp* OUSTED and you´re free to do whatever else you want in the remaining hour.

With Una and RoF decks you *cannot* interact and the game turns into a playground for the player piloting the deck. With Tupdog decks it depends a bit on the player, but usually it just means staring at 20-something pool counters and an empty ready and torpor region for at least two people.

If the players you mentioned did what you said, then it's their problem. They were not committed to the game, if 2 bad rounds turned them away form it.


Well that can be your attitude, of course. It's also a fairly easy one to assume as an established player and not one that will keep casual players interested for very long.

I'm pretty sure that when I played my first tournament in 2001 and my day had consisted of staring at my hand doing nothing for 4 hours I would not have been posting here.

If people try out a tournament and it's the opposite of fun, they're not going to try again. They´re going to keep playing with whomever they were playing with before and have some actual fun. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.
Last edit: 12 Apr 2012 12:30 by Izaak.
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12 Apr 2012 12:45 #27740 by Ankha

Izaak wrote: However, for everyone else, I'd MUCH prefer these three specific zero-fun decks to go. Not because I hate them personally (which I still do), but also because I want people to have a good time at my tournaments and return next time because they had FUN.

I'm not even asking for people to have fun. I'm asking that people may be allowed to play a turn during the game (and not the kind where you lose 10 pool on your first turn because Smiling already has 10 counters when you start to play).

For people who wants to discuss about Una and Tupdogs, please do it in a separated thread (that I'll surely enjoy reading, but don't mix up things here).

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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