Pentex Subversion (tm) vs Direct Intervention (& DI2)

I've lost more tournament rounds to a DI/DI2 than a Pentex. It's 'mega block' for those who can't by other means.

Prey is taking a bloat action and you are FoS?? Just DI/DI2 it!
Prey is about to oust?? Just DI/DI2 the bleed card!

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

I've lost more tournament rounds to a DI/DI2 than a Pentex. It's 'mega block' for those who can't by other means.

Prey is taking a bloat action and you are FoS?? Just DI/DI2 it!
Prey is about to oust?? Just DI/DI2 the bleed card!

Most annoying way to see DI "played" is when it gets useless table talk going. I have seen somebody doing Parity Shift then somebody else is like "I'm gonna DI that if you don't give pool also." Then somebody else jumps to the discussion saying "I have Sudden in hand and I can cancel DI so just give me the pool and take pool form that guy." This discussion goes on for 10 minutes without anybody even having the DI or Sudden in hand. There are similar situations also. That gave an idea to make a deck which gets one fast VP and then times out the table with useless DI deal talking.

Ohlmann wrote:

DI is a concept that have proven itself as problematic for the game (because it make the turn go a lot longer and favorise misplay). At the core, it mainly need for a clean rule that would make it as smooth as a counterspell in magic. Because it's not an easy task, there is the temptation to ban it. Which may be a good solution, since it just work, and no deck as far as I know is overly relient on DI to survive.

That is hard to do in multiplayer game. You can't say in 1vs1 MTG game "I'm not gonna counterspell your Grizzly Bears if you make a deal that you promise not to attack with them". Or I think I have to try that in next game.

Pendargon wrote:

DI

Because it is not about breaking the game, but because it wastes time. You have to ask, at final tables always, before drawing a replacement for any of your important actions "anybody want to DI this??". Also, i have seen long long long talks every time someone threatens to DI something occur. It wastes time, and is an ultimate silver bullet.

I feel this is a problem with the player, not the card. A player who is going to yackety-yak over DI will do the same thing with Sudden, Eagle's Sight, Parity Shift, or anything else he can have a say in. I play DI sometimes, like for example in a Nephandus deck I was playing at Templecon this year. Obviously it's useful there to stop ally steal or to cancel the stealth card that puts you past my Unmasking and a few other things. When I draw DI, I hold it and wait for that card I want to cancel. No mess. Blammo! You should have thought twice before Deflecting to me.

Whether the card is too strong is another matter of course. It certainly is strong. DI on your prey's Conditioning to deny an oust or on his Deflection (if you have bounced a big bleed at no stealth to him) is just huge. There are plenty of cards in this game that top players consider to be very strong that don't have nearly that big of an effect.

Pendargon wrote:

Pentex, on the other hand, however much maligned, is necessary i feel for the game. It balances itself out. Because, without pentex, there is almost nothing you can do when that Una starts freaking on the table, and that Turbo decks starts doing his mojo, or when your prey has that evil Lazverinus with Bowl and Eternal Vigilance, or your predators Nergal is bleeding you for 8+ every round. Without pentex, most of the time, against such stuff, you are screwed...

I agree with this. The bad part is that the existence of Pentex makes some decks that might otherwise be interesting avenues to explore next to worthless in a competitive environment. Any star deck must either include it to contest or include a way to get rid of it.

But I do think it's a positive that Pentex helps lunges happen. Games that finish are good.

I don't particularly like Pentex, but the existence of cards I hate far more necessitate it's continued existence.

No Secrets from the Magaji is bad, just plain overpowered. Add a Sniper Rifle and it completely shuts down many deck archetypes. Adv Cesewayo with a few Aye, same thing. To a lesser extent, Eternal Vigilance is problematic.

This type of "I block, block, block, block" potential requires some answer that all archetypes can access, or those archetypes can never be robust enough for tournament use. That's bad in my book.

Pentex is also "the" answer to one-turn wonders like Una Freakshow or Nergal-Beast-Mask. I love these decks for their innovative design, but anything that effectively kills the table in one huge turn should have a silver bullet answer that is accessible by all archetypes.

Likewise, there are a number of decks that might not bounce or have trumpy combat, but need to shut down a huge predatory threat for a turn or two. Again, I want to see no-bouncing decks be viable in tournament, and this is another tool in their kits.

So I think the card has to exist. I wouldn't be averse to copies of Pentex being removed from the game on burning (preventing any type of recursion).

DI......I simply have trouble finding any need for it. Its SO multifaceted, every use seems like a mini-hoser. Need to stop bleed? Done. Need to stop stealth? Done. Need to stop a rush? Done. Ben Peal effectively won the NAC by stopping a reaction card cross-table.

There's no other card that stops every possible classification of card a minion can play. Its so bad that I sometimes run DI2 in decks just so parts of my subsequent lunges won't get DI'ed.

At some point, someone will weave a half dozen DIs into a multiple MPA recursion construct just to show how bad it is.

As far as the mechanics (master cancels masters, minions stop minions), yes both break that game design intent, so I have issues on that front with both. But there have always been some "Masters AFFECT minions" functions (e.g., Misdirection) that seem appropriate.

So conceptually, I have fewer problems with a Master locking down a minion than I do with Masters directing interacting with them mid-action

TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:

No Secrets from the Magaji is bad, just plain overpowered. Add a Sniper Rifle and it completely shuts down many deck archetypes. Adv Cesewayo with a few Aye, same thing. To a lesser extent, Eternal Vigilance is problematic.

Meh.
I've dabbled with a couple NSFTM decks and you constantly live in fear of the unblockable actions.

That is you constantly have to worry if the acting minion have Fortitude, superior Obfuscate, superior Necromancy etc etc