Errata Kalis Fang??

Timo wrote:

Nictuku wrote:

i believe an era of melee weapons are coming

Yes, there will be an era of melee weapons when there will be one which will cost 2 pools, have an include maneuver and deal 2 range damage...

if its melee, its should damage strength

Nictuku wrote:

i believe an era of melee weapons are coming

Vampires. With. Lightsabers.

BenPeal wrote:

Nictuku wrote:

i believe an era of melee weapons are coming

Vampires. With. Lightsabers.

Imbued already got lightsaber....

Dorrinal wrote:

Guys.

If Kali's Fang were free... it still wouldn't be an automatic inclusion for Assamite decks. (Close, sure, but not automatic.) Melee weapons are that bad.

Question: is the issue that melee weapons are truly that bad? Or is the issue that a Celerity & guns combat package is always better? In the backround, guns do only bashing damage to vampires, which is also halved. A sword does lethal damage, is harder to soak, and often effectively does more damage. There's a good reason why swords and melee combat is the preferred method for vampires in cannon. For me it also strains credulity that supernatural speed increases the effectiveness and rate of fire of an assault rifle.

How different would the game be if you couldn't use additional strikes with guns, or they only added 1 additional damage per additional strike?

self wrote:

Dorrinal wrote:

Guys.

If Kali's Fang were free... it still wouldn't be an automatic inclusion for Assamite decks. (Close, sure, but not automatic.) Melee weapons are that bad.

Question: is the issue that melee weapons are truly that bad? Or is the issue that a Celerity & guns combat package is always better? In the backround, guns do only bashing damage to vampires, which is also halved. A sword does lethal damage, is harder to soak, and often effectively does more damage. There's a good reason why swords and melee combat is the preferred method for vampires in cannon. For me it also strains credulity that supernatural speed increases the effectiveness and rate of fire of an assault rifle.

How different would the game be if you couldn't use additional strikes with guns, or they only added 1 additional damage per additional strike?

i like the idea, and the way you questioning the additional strike/ supernatural speed effectiveness of a gun. With super speed, how can u increase the speed of a mechanical thing?? But, with celerity, i can imagine u strike two/tree times with a sword.

Personally i can support your idea above, to make the idea reality just a bit technical thing. I prefer the additional damage per additional strike version.

BenPeal wrote:

Nictuku wrote:

i believe an era of melee weapons are coming

Vampires. With. Lightsabers.

If those come with crossguards, I think they should cost 1 pool more, shouldn't they?

Nictuku wrote:

i like the idea, and the way you questioning the additional strike/ supernatural speed effectiveness of a gun.

thanks, i enjoy trying to challenge the status quo when it comes to how we think about the game. it should be mentioned that i usually find fluff justifications of game effects to be usually pretty lame, but the celerity/guns thing and how it works in vtes when compared to the source material truly baffles me.

maybe this forum and the posts in it can start a debate about the rulings, game balance and make the game better. id like to ask all of you to post what kind of singularity you have noticed in the game, such as this melee weapon issue. Maybe some other things come up, so the inner circle can think about some errata or slightly modifications about the rules, cards.

Nictuku wrote:

maybe this forum and the posts in it can start a debate about the rulings, game balance and make the game better. id like to ask all of you to post what kind of singularity you have noticed in the game, such as this melee weapon issue. Maybe some other things come up, so the inner circle can think about some errata or slightly modifications about the rules, cards.

most of my ideas tend to get shot down in a chorus of "the game is just fine as it is!" or "we can't change anything, that will confuse new players!" for the most part, the community here is profoundly reticent to any kind of grand and sweeping change to the game. Granted, some changes would require a mass errata of many cards, so I completely understand and respect that viewpoint.

However, with the game in a torpid state, I don't see how discussing ways to streamline some of the more unwieldy bits and doing some work on not only the engine of the game, but bringing the game in line with the more modern V20 background is a bad thing (holy sentence parsing, batman!). Indeed, having a plan for the future and a re-launch for the game may be beneficial to our efforts to get the game back in print. I've actually been slowly working on a plan of some ideas to revitalize the game, but my interest in working on it waxes and wanes

i know, its almost impossible to make those changes, but if u never try, or never ask, the answer is always no, thats my philosophy. I know this game has a future, and I'm happy to hear there a plans to make the game back in print. Probably that is most important goal we want to achieve.