file The Grandest Trick - Should it receive an Errata?

12 Apr 2019 13:44 #94501 by Mateusz
Now that we see VTES on the rise again and some cards already had rules updates, i think Grandest Trick should be reworded to make it playable:

Cost: 2 blood

Old Text
Only usable when an action is announced.
Vampires cannot block this minion. This acting vampire is treated as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, etc.). This vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't cost blood or require a vampire, clan or Discipline.

Proposed new text
Only usable when an action is announced. A vampire can play only one The Grandest Trick each game.
Vampires cannot block this minion. This acting vampire is treated as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life, etc.). This vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she is an ally.

"Renegade Garou, can do!"

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12 Apr 2019 14:58 #94502 by Snodig
It might be better if the card is put on the acting vampire, and a vampire can have only one Grandest Trick.
Much easier to keep track.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mateusz, Bloodartist

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12 Apr 2019 17:58 #94503 by Ankha
The grandest trick is to manage to play the Grandest Trick.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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12 Apr 2019 19:39 #94504 by jamesatzephyr

Mateusz wrote: Only usable on an action that doesn't cost blood or require a vampire, clan or Discipline.


This line that you've deleted doesn't help.

Requirements are checked when an action starts, and re-checked when it resolves.

[RTR 2008-08-08]

Rules Team Ruling wrote: An action that requires a Discipline (or clan or sect or capacity) will fizzle
if the acting vampire no longer meets the requirements (just as it would fizzle
if the acting minion ceased being ready, or if a required equipment was lost,
like a Bomb).


(Note that this Rules Team Ruling was a reversal of some previous rulings that said requirements were only checked when the action started, so be careful if you go hunting for rulings on it.)


If the action requires a vampire, it will fizzle when it resolves because TGT means we're treating the minion as an ally.

If the action costs blood, life cannot be used to meet a blood cost, and TGT means that we're treating the minion's blood as life.

Mortal allies don't have clans or disciplines under TGT, so a card that required a clan or discipline would not have its requirements met. [LSJ 20070228]

LSJ wrote: > I would think that a mortal ally cannot have a
> clan,

Nor a Disciple. Correct. Mata has neither while she is a mortal ally.

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13 Apr 2019 06:16 #94506 by Mateusz

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Mateusz wrote: Only usable on an action that doesn't cost blood or require a vampire, clan or Discipline.


This line that you've deleted doesn't help.

Requirements are checked when an action starts, and re-checked when it resolves.
[...]
If the action requires a vampire, it will fizzle when it resolves because TGT means we're treating the minion as an ally.

If the action costs blood, life cannot be used to meet a blood cost, and TGT means that we're treating the minion's blood as life.

Mortal allies don't have clans or disciplines under TGT, so a card that required a clan or discipline would not have its requirements met. [LSJ 20070228]

LSJ wrote: > I would think that a mortal ally cannot have a
> clan,

Nor a Disciple. Correct. Mata has neither while she is a mortal ally.


Ok, i was not aware of that! :(

Snodig wrote: It might be better if the card is put on the acting vampire, and a vampire can have only one Grandest Trick.
Much easier to keep track.


Very good idea! Thank you!

So, how about this version of the card?

Proposed new text V2
Only usable when an action is announced. Put this card on the acting vampire. A vampire can have only one The Grandest Trick.
Vampires cannot block this minion during the current action. If this acting vampire is reduced to 0 blood or sent to torpor during this action, he or she is burned instead.

What do you think?

"Renegade Garou, can do!"

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13 Apr 2019 09:09 - 13 Apr 2019 09:11 #94510 by Bloodartist

Ankha wrote: The grandest trick is to manage to play the Grandest Trick.


I wonder is this one of those "First you play clan impersonation" quests..

"Plenty of little men tried to put their swords through my heart. And there's plenty of little skeletons buried in the woods."
- Tormund Giantsbane, Game of Thrones
Last edit: 13 Apr 2019 09:11 by Bloodartist.

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