file Baali Combat

17 Oct 2011 13:48 - 18 Oct 2011 08:30 #12145 by Uncle Mofo
Baali Combat was created by Uncle Mofo
Crypt:
2x Nergal - AUS,DAI,FOR,OBF,PRE,THA - 10
2x Cybele - ANI,DAI,OBF,PRE,SER,THA - 10
1x Valerius Maior, Hell's Fool (Camarilla) - AUS,DAI,DOM,THA,nec,pre - 7
1x Valerius Maior, Hell's Fool (Sabbat) - AUS,DAI,DOM,THA,nec,pre - 7
1x Petaniqua - AUS,DAI,DEM,OBF,THA,che - 9
1x Petaniqua (Advanced) - AUS,DAI,DEM,OBF,THA,che - 9
2x Maureen The Dark Priestess - DAI,PRE,dom,obf
1x Janine - aus,dom,tha
1x Uta Kovacs - AUS,DOM,THA,ser

Master:
3x Striga
3x Maleficia
3x Blood Doll
3x Tend The Flock
1x Giant's Blood
1x Golconda: Inner Peace
1x Society of Leopold
1x Ruins Of Charizel

Action:
2x Concordance
1x IR Goggles
3x Rutor's Hand
2x Greater Curse
1x Condemnation: Languid
2x Harass
2x Bum's Rush
1x Call The Great Beast
5x Shatter The Gate

Action Modifier:
2x Psychomachia

Combat:
13x Theft Of Vitae
9x Conflagration
4x Blood To Water
8x Apportation
1x Cauldron of Blood
1x Drain Essence
1x Stone Quills
1x Soul Burn
2x Ignore The Searing Flames
4x Hexe

I know it could do with a few more 'Enter combat' cards in the shape of Bum's Rush etc, and I would have a few Rego Motus' if they weren't so damn expensive. Apart from that, what would you do to improve it? I'm looking for suggestions not only for library cards but also for vampires too.

All comments appreciated.

"Better to die quick, fighting on your feet; Than to live forever, begging on your knees"
Last edit: 18 Oct 2011 08:30 by Uncle Mofo.

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17 Oct 2011 14:02 - 17 Oct 2011 14:02 #12147 by Klaital
Replied by Klaital on topic Re: Baali Combat
Your combat seems to be mostly thaumaturgy which you could do much better with tremere. If your going Baali you might as well use more of their toys. Like for example you could focus around Mary the Black, give her concordance and then you could do IG + Pounce for 4 agg.

Using lots of concordances would also give you some other nice things to use like Dive Bomb and As The Crow.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2011 14:02 by Klaital.

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17 Oct 2011 14:11 #12148 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Baali Combat
From my experience, Baali are not very good fighter because they're not very resilient.
If you take the path of Thaumaturgy, can be easily replaced by Flames of the Netherworld, so daimoinon is not required.

If you still want to go the infernal way, clearly you must take advantage of the Maleficia and Striga cards.

Crypt:
2x Nergal - AUS,DAI,FOR,OBF,PRE,THA - 10
2x Cybele - ANI,DAI,OBF,PRE,SER,THA - 10
1x Valerius Maior, Hell's Fool (Camarilla) - AUS,DAI,DOM,THA,nec,pre - 7
1x Valerius Maior, Hell's Fool (Sabbat) - AUS,DAI,DOM,THA,nec,pre - 7
1x Petaniqua - AUS,DAI,DEM,OBF,THA,che - 9
1x Petaniqua (Advanced) - AUS,DAI,DEM,OBF,THA,che - 9
2x Maureen The Dark Priestess - DAI,PRE,dom,obf
1x Janine - aus,dom,tha
1x Uta Kovacs - AUS,DOM,THA,ser

Crypt is far too big to make and efficient combat deck without a real star vampire (ie. there's no Enkidu-like vampire in your crypt). Unfortunately, there's no small vampire with dai and tha, apart Barbaro Lucchese.
If you want to stick to this crypt, better pack lots of Villein and crypt accelerator (10 and 6 respectively).

Master:
3x Striga
3x Maleficia
3x Blood Doll
3x Tend The Flock
1x Giant's Blood
1x Golconda: Inner Peace
1x Society of Leopold
1x Ruins Of Charizel

Going both Striga and Maleficia means you'll probably never have the right "skill" at the right time. You'd better stick to one. Maleficia is my favorite because of Evil Eye that protects your vampires from bad strikes, cancel combat ends, and protects you from some nasty actions.
Society of Leopold is quite out of place here, especially when you have vampires that can't afford to lose an action to move it and may have -1 stealth from the concordance.
Blood Dolls are too slow when you play a big crypt.
Tend The Flock are likely not to show up in the opening hand. Either play lots of them or none.

Action:
2x Concordance
1x IR Goggles
3x Rutor's Hand
2x Greater Curse
1x Condemnation: Languid
2x Harass
2x Bum's Rush

Far too little rushes, a combat deck usually have 10+ of them, otherwise you'll never rush at the right time. Concordance is tricky.

Action Modifier:
2x Psychomachia

Always a good card.

Combat:
13x Theft Of Vitae
9x Conflagration
4x Blood To Water
8x Apportation
1x Cauldron of Blood
1x Drain Essence
1x Stone Quills
1x Soul Burn
2x Ignore The Searing Flames
4x Hexe

You try to do too many things. Blood to water looks great but is a poor card in fact, same with Drain Essence. Chances are very low that you manage to pull 2 Striga on a vampire to make Hexe better than conflagration.

I would definitely not play a Daimoinon/Thaumaturgy deck. Sorry if it doesn't help much to say that, but I think your deck is a bad idea doomed to failure.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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17 Oct 2011 14:26 #12152 by ICL
Replied by ICL on topic Re: Baali Combat
What is important for this deck?

Some rather major problems I see:
1. You should be effortless to oust. You have minimal pool gain, no pool defense, four rushes to preemptively prevent pool loss.
2. Your (ousting) offense is limited. Sure, Nergal and Cybele can get people ousted. But, you are easy to defend against as every deck should have some sort of plan for being bled.
3. Your combat is overkill and limited. You lose to combat ends. This wouldn't be as much of an issue if you were an intercept combat deck where you don't have to win every combat, but ... actually, #3 should be that you have virtually no way to ensure combat, so your excessive number of combat cards are just going to be dead draws.
4. You have no reason to be playing Maleficia or Striga. Greater Curse is pretty good at Daimoinon, so that could stay, but Hexe is just wasting card slots.

Without knowing what's important, hard to say what to change. A Striga intercept combat deck appeals to me, but it helps to have a number of rares; Striga isn't essential, which eliminates the desire for things like Strix. Baali rush is rather implausible as it will likely have all of the problems above even with major changes.

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17 Oct 2011 22:49 #12177 by blackday
Replied by blackday on topic Re: Baali Combat
I agree with the statements above, you are trying to put too many things in a deck, a Baali one at that. You would be ousted in less than 10 turns even without a bleeder involved, due to the reasons stated previously. Get an idea what you want your deck to do, before putting the cards in.

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17 Oct 2011 23:20 - 17 Oct 2011 23:24 #12178 by prunesquallor
Replied by prunesquallor on topic Re: Baali Combat
I've been struggling for a while to make a deck like this work, and it isn't easy. Best suggestion I can make is to pick a few things and emphasize those, and cut most of the rest.

One thing I've chosen to emphasize in mine is Concordance; I have about 6 of them, plus some As The Crow to take advantage of Flight.

For the crypt, I decided to focus on Nergal, Petaniqua (basic and advanced, and with luck I can merge her) and Valerious Meior. I'd go for just two vampires in the crypt, but need a few different capacity vampires in there for Tend The Flock to work.

The crypt all have auspex, so Nose of the Hound is a better rush card than the usual suspects. I'm also doing some auspex untap and block, and Sense The Sin is my only bleed modifier since it can also be used as intercept when needed.

Combat package is a mix of Apportation, Theft of Vitae, Rego Motus, Conflagration and Flames of the Netherworld, with a splash of Target (head or vitals).

I find that even with Theft and damage prevention from Rego Motus that keeping blood on these vampires is tough. I've started putting in some cards like Sheepdog, The Rack, Palatial Estate to help keep blood on my minions. Sheepdog is fun because the drawback (don't untap as normal) doesn't apply to Baali (since they don't untap as normal anyway).

Still, as I said at the start of the post, my deck is not good yet; it's fun, and I'm still finding enough ways to tune it, so I'm not giving up yet.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2011 23:24 by prunesquallor.

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