Giovanni Preconstructed Starter Doubled

muushupork wrote:

Ill have to start looking for the FN ones. I do have the KMW vamps so ill have to do this one on my own! Thanx!

I'm working on a deck from this mash-up. It will have some holes but will be palyable and you can add or change it later. Probably it will be posted this weekend. (just in case you were wondering if anyone was trying to do this mash-up)

muushupork wrote:

Hey adonai would you be willing to do the ravnos and giovanni mashups?

Challenge:
Combine and reduce 2 Lords of the Night Giovanni starter decks into the best single deck available.

Step 1 ) Fix the Crypt.
If you spend 2 turns moving transfers to a vampire, they need to have your desired disciplines at superior. Margaret fails that test, so we'll drop her to one copy and replace her with an extra copy of Lady Constancia, in the hope that we can pass a copy or two of Reckless Agitation.

Step 2 ) Examine the Happy Families recommedations based on the vampires remaining:

Happy Families !
Suggested card amounts :

18x Master
22x Potence
22x Necromancy
15x Dominate
13x disciplineless

"Happy Families" formula courtesy of James McClellan (aka Legbiter)
legbiter.tripod.com/hf/theory.htm

Step 3 ) Cut masters down to 15 by:
Removing cards that can only be played when moving vampire into play. We don't have any fortitude cards to play in the deck, so adding fortitude to our vampires via Proxy Kissed has almost no purpose. The extra blood and the extra potence are nice, but they aren't of enough value to the rest of the deck that their extremely limited time frame for play is acceptable.
We will expect to spend a lot of blood on Shambling Hordes, so we will keep two copies of the Hunting Ground and Giant's Blood, just to ensure that we see them early.

Step 4 ) Decide on Allies.
We need to have an ally in the Ash Heap in order to play Shambling Hordes at all, so we'll keep all eight copies, discarding the first as soon as we see it.

Step 5 ) Decide on Reactions.
We have 20 to choose from, and 16 of them double as action modifiers. The untaps are critical, so we will keep all 4. With only 4 untaps, we shouldn't invest heavily in other reactions, and we'll reduce Murmur of the False Will and Spectral Divination to 4 copies each.

Step 6 ) Decide on Equipment.
The Sargon Fragment lets us reuse whichever other cards we've used that will be most effective when used again, so we'll keep both copies. The rest are too expensive, either in pool costs, or in actions, so we'll drop all but one of each. As we play the deck, we can note which are effective locally and swap them around later.

Step 7 ) Decide on Actions.
The Giovanni have a huge diversity of actions available, 14 different ones by name, and 46 action and political action cards. As we know that we will already be taking actions to get Shambling Hordes and some equipment, we will need the actions that best enable us to get more from our deck. Sudario Refraction and Dominate Kine are keepers, the rest we will only want to dabble in. Compel the Spirit will let us recycle a Shambling Horde if we have 2 in our Ash Heap, so we will keep 1, but we would really want more allies to make it worthwhile. Chill of Oblivion has no value against our expected opponents (other Lords of the Night starter decks as doubled & trimmed by the VEKN members), so it will be dropped. Divine Sign really calls for a deck with more untap and smaller minions, so it will be dropped. Ex Nihilo is great in trick decks, but not so good for learning how to oust prey, so it will be dropped. Graverobbing is great for a follow up on a rush from a Shambling Horde, so we'll keep them. The Harass is perfect in the right situation and is likely to be used on our predator to ensure a turn or two of less pressure, so we will keep 2. Jack of Both Sides is ok, but only ok. We'll drop them all. It is unlikely that our vampires or our opponents vampires will be burned, so Possession will be
dropped. We do hope to put opposing vampires in torpor with our Shambling Hordes, so the Siphons may see as much use as the Graverobbings. We'll keep one to explore the option. Whispers from the Dead will let us retrieve any one card that we need, so three will let us tune our hand. Ideally we'll use them to get the ousting cards back. We do expect to have 2 votes, plus perhaps one from the Edge, so calling Reckless Agitation is a valid possibility, especially if we spend some time discussing options with others on the table with a voting presence. We'll keep 3 copies of Reckless Agitation but will drop all copies of Warrant.

Step 8 ) Decide on Action Modifiers.
Call of the Hungry Dead is great, and will help many actions get thru. We'll keep all six. We have too few vampires with presence, so Inspire Greatness will be dropped. Since we went down to 2 weapons, the Forger's Hammer are too hard to get to work together, so they will be dropped. Four Conditioning are adequate to ensure we have offense when we are bleeding with the Dominate Kine, so we'll only drop 2.

Step 9 ) Decide on Combat.
Concealed Weapon doesn't fit with our reduced reliance on weapons. Everything else is playable and useful.

Step 10 ) Play the deck.
Explore which actions really help you win, and which are just spinning your wheels. Be very careful about tapping out, you only have 4 untaps, which means it is very easy to tap your last minions and bleed you heavily.

Step 11 ) Venture beyond the starters.
As mentioned in the crypt section, LSJ handicapped the starters in this set (and in the Keepers of Tradition set) by making the vampires too large. Look for smaller minions that can help you out, particularly those from the boosters of Lords of the Night, Kindred Most Wanted, Gehenna, and Legacies of Blood. Look for other untap cards like Wake with Evenings Freshness and On the Qui Vive to improve the reaction section.

Deck Name : Giovanni Preconstructed Starter Doubled and trimmed
Author : Lasombra
Description :

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 10 average: 6.58333

3x	Lady Constancia	(10)		2 votes	Giovanni	(g4)
2x	Guillaume Giovanni	(9)			Giovanni	(g4)
2x	Francis Milliner	(6)			Giovanni	(g4)
2x	Primo Giovanni	(4)			Giovanni	(g4)
2x	Nunzio Giovanni	(3)			Giovanni	(g4)
1x	Margaret Milliner	(5)			Giovanni	(g4)

Library [90 cards]

Action [15]
1x Compel the Spirit
4x Dominate Kine
2x Graverobbing
2x Harass
1x Siphon
2x Sudario Refraction
3x Whispers from the Dead

Action Modifier [10]
6x Call of the Hungry Dead
4x Conditioning

Action Modifier/Reaction [8]
4x Murmur of the False Will
4x Spectral Divination

Ally [8]
8x Shambling Hordes

Combat [22]
6x Brute Force
4x Immortal Grapple
4x Slam
4x Taste of Vitae
4x Torn Signpost

Equipment [5]
1x Bang Nakh -- Tiger's Claws
1x Bundi
1x Camera Phone
2x Sargon Fragment, The

Master [15]
2x Giant's Blood
1x KRCG News Radio
2x Morgue Hunting Ground
2x Necromancy
4x Path of Bone, The
4x Vessel

Political Action [3]
3x Reckless Agitation

Reaction [4]
4x Eluding the Arms of Morpheus

Siphon must steal blood from vampires in torpor to be useful, but Shamblers and Potence strikes usually knock them out empty. I think it would be better replaced by another copy of Harass.

Adonai wrote:

Challenge:
Combine and reduce 2 Lords of the Night Giovanni starter decks into the best single deck available.


Please explain why/how you make your decisions....

Deck Name: giovanni lotn starter double up
Created By: LSJ
Description: The double up of two Giovanni LotN starters.


Crypt: (24 cards, Min: 12, Max: 40, Avg: 6.16)
4 > 1 Lady Constancia AUS DOM FOR NEC POT 10 Giovanni

She is big considering you don’t have a lot of pool gain. We’ll keep one because she has a fun ability. Maybe she can be added or taken out after the deck is played a few times and her advantages and disadvantages are discovered.

4 > 3 Guillaume Giovanni CEL DOM NEC POT obt 9 Giovanni

He will be the big vampire. Aside from the 1 Lady Constancia, he is the only one to have all three Giovanni disciplines at superior.

4 > 2 Francis Milliner NEC POT pre vic 6 Giovanni

He has no dominate, but does have NEC and POT. He can be an effective vampire to use Harass. He does give Margeret Milliner +1 bleed. We’ll keep two for the rushes and the bleed bonus for Margie.

4 > 3 Margaret Milliner dom for nec pot pre 5 Giovanni

She has a relatively low cost. She gets +1 bleed if Francis is out. Her drawback is not relevant since, right now, you have no fortitude cards in the library. You may add Fortitude later. We’ll keep three.

4 > 2 Primo Giovanni dom nec pot 4 Giovanni

Has all three disciplines you are using. He is relatively cheap. We’ll keep two.

4 > 1 Nunzio Giovanni nec pot 3 Giovanni

Too bad he doesn’t have dominate. He will be a support vampire who provides extra actions and options.


Library: (154 cards)

Master (20 cards)(9 cards)
2 > 1 Giant`s Blood

Fun! And it may help fill up an empty vamp after combats. Since you don’t have fortitude it will be nice for gaining blood back along with taste of vitae.

2 > 1 KRCG News Radio
2 > 1 Morgue Hunting Ground

Always helps to have a little intercept. Hunting grounds may help keep blood up or fuel Vessel’s. Both will give you handsize if Guillaume is out.

2 > 0 Necromancy

Skill cards are fun and may be something you want to add as personal preference but they don’t really fit here since you don’t necessarily need NEC on all your vamps.

4 > 2 Path of Bone, The

Edit: You don’t really need these but we’ll keep two for the Spectral divination. You could keep 2 skill cards instead, more for the capacity than anything else. But spectral divination for free is nice too.

4 > 0 Proxy Kissed

If you change the crypt around and add fortitude cards, this may be useful. I like this card but 6 of your vamps already have POT.

4 Vessel

Your one source of pool gain.


Action (38 cards) (20 cards)
2 Chill of Oblivion

Put these on to protect against aggravated damage. If you add fortitude you can remove these if it is your preference.

2 > 0 Compel the Spirit

You are not using the Hordes or other allies or retainers. Might be good to add if you change the deck or add the shambling hordes.

4 > 0 Divine Sign

If you want to try more blocking you could try adding these.

4 > 3 Dominate Kine

+1 bleed +1 stealth is a good action but its costly. It can also steal a location and add to the benefit of Guillaume’s ability.

2 > 0 Ex Nihilo

Not for this deck.

2 Graverobbing

It would be nice if there were around six of these. Since you have two, I would really try to steal vamps who have dominate. If you are matching up against other LotN mash-ups you may just want to steal anything and if they have any common disciplines its just extra nice.

8 Harass

Attack predator and prey’s vamps for defense and offense.

4 > 0 Jack of Both Sides
2 > 0 Possession
2 > 0 Siphon

All interesting, but we’ll leave them out of this deck.

2 > 0 Sudario Refraction

If you add the shambling hordes these may be useful.

4 Whispers from the Dead

Customizing your hand to the situation is always nice. It can also retrieve used graverobbing actions.


Action Modifier (16 cards) (12 cards)
6 Call of the Hungry Dead
6 Conditioning

Block denial and bleed modifiers. This is a new concept. No one will have seen it before (not even the Followers of Set). HaHa!

2 > 0 Forger`s Hammer
2 > 0 Inspire Greatness

Don’t really fit in this deck.


Political Action (0 cards)
6 > 0 Reckless Agitation
2 > 0 Warrant

You have only one vamp with votes. The Reckless Agitation votes may be negotiable but maybe that is something for newer players to try later.


Reaction (4 cards)
4 Eluding the Arms of Morpheus

Discipline-less untap and block. This may be a good surprise to block with 2 intercept using KRCG and Spectral Divination (or to bounce bleeds with Murmur of the false will).


Combat (26 > 22 cards)
6 Brute Force
4 > 0 Concealed Weapon
4 Immortal Grapple
4 Slam
4 Taste of Vitae
4 Torn Signpost

This is your bread and butter. Send people to torpor to eliminate blockers or to slow down pressure, then grave rob. If you change the deck to include fortitude and more grave robbing you can control the table and multiply your minions.


Ally (0 cards)
8 > 0 Shambling Hordes

I have gone back and forth with these. They might be good enough to add just by themselves. You would have to dump one into the ash heap to bring one out. These can eat through a deck that relies on combat ends or dodges. They can potentially send vamps to torpor so they can be grave robbed. The problem is having only two graverobbing.


Equipment (18 cards)(11 cards)
6 > 0 Bang Nakh -- Tiger`s Claws
6 > 4 Bundi
4 > 3 Camera Phone
2 > 1 Sargon Fragment, The

Bundi may help against another LotN deck using Bundi. It can be used when you grapple and gets benefit from Brute force. Sargon Fragment can be a great card, especially if opponents don’t want to block.


Combo (16 cards)
8 Murmur of the False Will
8 Spectral Divination

These cards are really versatile so we will keep them.





Here is the deck I came up with, what do you think.


Deck Name: Giovanni LotN deck mash-up
Created By: Andy Fernandez
Description: This is a deck for the LotN starter deck mash-up challenge. It is based on a deck I saw a very good player (from Seattle) use. You have dominate bleed and block denial to oust. You use harass and graverobbing to cripple prey and predator and to bolster your supply of minions. I think it will hold its own against the other LotN starter mash-ups. It can be modified by changing the crypt. Specifically adding some vampires with fortitude. I would start by adding Ignazio Giovanni from the Black Hand set, Maybe Baldesar Giovani (from Gehenna set) and Benedict Giovanni (from Kindred Most Wanted set) are also options to consider adding. Then add some fortitude prevention next.


Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 16, Max: 37, Avg: 6.25)
1 Lady Constancia AUS DOM FOR NEC POT 10 Giovanni
3 Guillaume Giovanni CEL DOM NEC POT obt 9 Giovanni
2 Francis Milliner NECPOT pre vic 6 Giovanni
3 Margaret Milliner dom for nec pot pre 5 Giovanni
2 Primo Giovanni domnec pot 4 Giovanni
1 Nunzio Giovanni nec pot 3 Giovanni

Library: (90 cards)

Master (9 cards)
1 Giant`s Blood
1 KRCG News Radio
1 Morgue Hunting Ground
2 Path of Bone, The
4 Vessel

Action (19 cards)
2 Chill of Oblivion
3 Dominate Kine
2 Graverobbing
8 Harass
4 Whispers from the Dead

Action Modifier (12 cards)
6 Call of the Hungry Dead
6 Conditioning

Reaction (4 cards)
4 Eluding the Arms of Morpheus

Combat (22 cards)
6 Brute Force
4 Immortal Grapple
4 Slam
4 Taste of Vitae
4 Torn Signpost

Equipment (8 cards)
4 Bundi
3 Camera Phone
1 Sargon Fragment, The

Combo (16 cards)
8 Murmur of the False Will
8 Spectral Divination

TorranceCircle wrote:

4 > 2 Path of Bone, The

You don’t really need these but we’ll keep two for the Spectral Divination and the Call of the Hungry Dead.

The Path of Bone does not interact with Call of the Hungry Dead in any way.

LSJ 04-20-2006

> Burning blood for superior Call of the Hungry Dead is not a blood cost, thus Path of Bone doesn't give you a discount when playing CotHD.

It's not a card cost, correct. And Path only reduces card costs,
correct.

Otherwise, I like your alternative deck proposal!
B)

Adonai wrote:

The Path of Bone does not interact with Call of the Hungry Dead in any way.



Otherwise, I like your alternative deck proposal!
B)

Thanks. I don't play necromancy much. I only know it from it being played against me I'll make and edit to my post right now.