New Card Idea: Crusade Spearhead

I like #2, but lower the points to 4, just to make it an improved KRC, that would maximize the minion/pool damage up to three.
Also, include a "can take damage only if have at least 1 ready minion" clause.
Finally, to add a "we are the sabbat, our horde is gonna overwhelm your game" flavor, give every sabbat (or titled sabbat) an additional vote.

I like it that way because could work with a B&V approach (and can help rusher decks with the winnie/imbued problem)

#1 could get OP in certain decks (Toreador! embrace+palla grande/ foundation exhibit)

#3 is too tricky and can reach great ammounts of pool burn, ousting an "out of range" meth with only 1 card.+

Cheers!

Ohlmann wrote:

The breeding power of #1 and #2 are turn off for me. Don't forget that you already have consanguineous boon for breeding deck ; the combination of #1 or #3 with Palla Grande seem potentially broken.

The #2 seem good but unpolished, and may be a bit too powerful. Also, as written, it do nothing if the methuselah have no ready minion.

Remember that we're aiming for a contender with Parity Shift. Not some card that you'll look at for how pretty it is and then shove in the box and go with Parity anyway every given time. For that reason they have the card needs to be really strong... and is thus difficult to design.

miketheknife wrote:

I like #2, but lower the points to 4, just to make it an improved KRC, that would maximize the minion/pool damage up to three.
Also, include a "can take damage only if have at least 1 ready minion" clause.
Finally, to add a "we are the sabbat, our horde is gonna overwhelm your game" flavor, give every sabbat (or titled sabbat) an additional vote.

I like it that way because could work with a B&V approach (and can help rusher decks with the winnie/imbued problem)

I like #2 the best too. But you've got it wrong when you're saying it would be an "improved KRC" after lowering the points to just 4. Saying that it is broken also baffles me: It works just like a KRC... but the target can choose to burn _less_ pool and have his minions take damage for every point of pool not burnt. The choice may not be a trivial one, sure, but KRC doesn't give you any. It's burn pool, period.


Drain

Drain wrote:

Remember that we're aiming for a contender with Parity Shift.
(...)

Why?
Why the hell people force strengths into the Sabbat that they don't need or should even have?
(This is not just for Drain. Lots of people want to turn Sabbat into Camarilla).

Camarilla should be the overwhelming power in Kindred politics. Making a Sabbat political deck should be a challenging endeavor.
Sabbat should be better in other things.
Wizards of the Coast made a huge mistake trying to make Sabbat and Camarilla equal in numbers and in modus operandi.
Sabbat is smaller in numbers and resources.
Strong Black Hand stealth n bleed makes perfect sense, for instance.

About these cards:
Shattering Crescendo and Smiling Jack are balanced because they need a kind of setup that is not trivial.

Drain wrote:

Remember that we're aiming for a contender with Parity Shift. Not some card that you'll look at for how pretty it is and then shove in the box and go with Parity anyway every given time. For that reason they have the card needs to be really strong... and is thus difficult to design.

First, they are way worst than Parity Shift.
Then, it help decks that don't need too
Lastly, the idea is not to be as powerful as Parity, but giving a flavorful and powerful vote for the sabbat to expand theirs specifics cards.

Brum wrote:

Why?
Why the hell people force strengths into the Sabbat that they don't need or should even have?
(This is not just for Drain. Lots of people want to turn Sabbat into Camarilla).

Camarilla should be the overwhelming power in Kindred politics. Making a Sabbat political deck should be a challenging endeavor.

I approve that sabbat and camarilla should be very different, but I don't know where you have seen that the Sabbat is supposedly less adept at politics. Both have different strength in politics, but don't forget that the Sabbat have been successful in consistently organizing great scale operations

Brum wrote:

(This is not just for Drain. Lots of people want to turn Sabbat into Camarilla).

Camarilla should be the overwhelming power in Kindred politics. Making a Sabbat political deck should be a challenging endeavor.

V:TES is a strategy card game. Most titled vampires have "paid" for their titles in notional design points. The Camarilla and Sabbat titles tend to cost roughly in the same ballpark, so they should provide roughly the same benefit. One way of doing that is to provide good political actions. You might think "Well, give them good options requiring titles, but not votes" - and that's fine too. But the Camarilla already have many good options there too.

Along similar lines, a strict application of WoD lore would make Red List unavailable to anyone other than the Camarilla. But design "fairness" in a strategy game made it available to everyone.

It's also useful to have more options to thwart Camarilla politics, and to promote interaction at a table. If a Toreador vote deck cannot be challenged by a Lasombra deck, because the Camarilla rule politics and the Sabbat suck, there's less interaction. Friction between decks is good and necessary.



Additionally, one option that is possible is to go the Cardinal Benediction route - make a vote that (effectively) represents internal politics, and excludes Camarilla vampires from voting.

And as Ohlmann says, the Sabbat can get plenty political. I'm not sure why you think they can't.

I agree wholeheartedly with James' rationale. I do like to pay at least lip-service to the background material and will always opt to adhere to it whenever it is also in the best interest of the game's general balance. The practical aplication to the case in point would be to make Sabbat voting competitive but overall inferior to Camarilla voting. That is what I strive to achieve.

Of course you may or not like these suggestions and even I agree that they're anything but polished. Still I would have you consider a couple of things, if you will:

- Camarilla voting would still be leagues stronger even with the existence of one of these cards.

- If anyone were to go to the newsgroup pre-Lords Of The Night and suggest a home-made card with a text akin to Reckless Agitation's that person would have been told by the solid majority that the card is crazy broken and that such a design should never see the light of day.


Drain