Cards for Necromancy

ReverendRevolver wrote:

I agree that contradicting lore just for the sake of it is bad.

I'm not sure that creating a dual-discipline card, so you can take advantage of making the card a little more powerful etc., is "just for the sake of it".

ReverendRevolver wrote:

The root of the issue is early sets and necro SUCKING TERRIBLY.

Necromancy in Dark Sovereigns isn't the worst discipline ever. It comes out of it much better than Chimerstry, for my money. The major problem is that it ends up being very unfocused. And then the additions in Ancient Hearts are pap. Serpentis gets basically two decent cards in AH (Temptation and Form of Corruption), a bunch of really sub-standard nonsense (what was Eyes of the Serpent about? why do I want terrible stealth from Form of Corruption, when I can just play Obfuscate? Mummify?). And Phobia, which was almost not entirely awful in its original printing ("Each master phase"), then awful ("your master phase").

Of 9 Necromancy cards, three are pretty solid. Spectral Divination (stealth/intercept) was quite decent. Jar the Soul had reasonable use in tap and bleed decks (which are massively less popular these days). Spiritual Intervention isn't awful, but somewhat contradicts Potence.

Then you get Compel the Spirit and Possession which weren't totally awful, but very trick-focused - certainly they fueled some fun[ decks, even if not terribly effective. Torment the Soul looks okay (important words follow) when viewed from the perspective that WotC apparently thought second-round combat was a feasible strategy (which they apparently did). Of course, it doesn't mesh well with Potence and the need for Immortal Grapple, and was totally outclassed by just playing Disarm (once Sabbat rolled around) and Pulled Fangs (which was totally amazingly awesome, and yet another of the reasons why second round combat was a totally bonkers proposition).

And, of course, Eyes of the Dead.

As of now, good necro is:
Shambler.
S:ce (for free)
+1 stealth or intercept for a blood on one card.
-1 intercept or block fails on a card.

Ok cards:
Possesion
Demonic possesion
Chair of hades
Chill of oblivion

Playable:
Dead hand
Jar the soul

The issue for me is, even the good cards arent amazing, and with the exception of shambling hordes, something else does something very similar, typically with less cost. Earth meld>just combat ends, for example.

Theres just not much character to make necro stand out.

Its a support discipline, not unlike protean, but both it and protean could be way cooler with a little help.

You missed Mercy for Seth which is very nice card for harbingers who can block the action to remove it. Can completely shut down vampires with it, and as a nice side effect, it insta kills imbued.

I am not sure of the value of determining which indep' discipline suck the most. All four are weaksauce with a small number of extremely powerful card. Except quietus, who try to save itself with Loss and fail.

Thematic Ideas:

Past Sins
Victorian/Shakespearean Tragedy always centers around a person's sins and misuse of their powerful aspects coming to bite them in the ass. So, digging around for people's past deeds resulting in bleed. It's meant to punish the 'repeaters' like high Majesty, high Obedience, Ashur Tablet and Anthelios Decks.

Chronicle of Buried Secrets
Simple: A record of where all the bodies were buried and then exploiting them. Dead mortals --> + bleed

Enslaved Wraith
Find a Wraith. Use to enslave it. Throw it in harm's way to keep you safe while you do the important things. The classic "disposable goon".

Ohlmann wrote:

I am not sure of the value of determining which indep' discipline suck the most. All four are weaksauce with a small number of extremely powerful card. Except quietus, who try to save itself with Loss and fail.

This thread is focusing on necro, obviously a skill in need of some better stuff.

For comparisons sake, i believe(since thats why i keep including protean as a point of reference), other indy disciplines were thrown in.

To be fair, indy clans probably get off better than the bloodlines with necro as a discipline. They get more cool toys. The ravnos especially got at least sense dep and draba. Alonf with plenty of other actually useful and thematically logical stuff for chi, plus good in clan stuff.

The big point is giovanni got cards for clan specific that could have been necro in general. Not even justcgood stuff, like zombie which is so-so, could have been necro.

Necro still sucks, and that is the cause of this thread.

To be fair, lsj tried to help quietus with loss.