Submission: Bindusara Advanced

I've been working on a Bindusara deck and got to thinking, boy, this guy is crying out to get Advanced. So, here's an idea:

Bindusara Advanced:

"Allies and younger vampires must burn a blood or life to attempt to block Bindusara's Undirected Actions."

Merged:

"Prince of Istanbul"


And while I'm on the topic of Advanced vampires, I think it would be really exciting to have an Expansion dedicated to introducing (maybe 40?) new Advanced vampires with a focus on using vampires from Groups 1 and 2. There's plenty of lack luster vampires from those groups that never get used that would really benefit from some creative Advanced versions.

CalibanX wrote:

And while I'm on the topic of Advanced vampires, I think it would be really exciting to have an Expansion dedicated to introducing (maybe 40?) new Advanced vampires with a focus on using vampires from Groups 1 and 2. There's plenty of lack luster vampires from those groups that never get used that would really benefit from some creative Advanced versions.

There are some terrible vampires, but there are also some great decks that are playable with the good vampires - Ventrue Law Firm, Obfuscate Ventrue, Domi-Protean (Stanislava mostly), Euro-Brujah, AAA Toreador decks and any sort of Anson MMPA deck, Malkavian Obf/Dom stealth bleed, Nosferatu Royalty etc.

What you probably don't want to do is pick a terrible vampire - say, Nakova or Eliott Sinclair - and by improving them, making an already great deck even better. Oh look, Ventrue Law Firm can slim out a duplicate or two and add this newly useful vampire, or Euro-Brujah now have an asset in Tura Vaughn-Adv etc.

It's potentially doable, but it's not trivial.

If the majority of the Advanced vampires were large, I don't see the scenarios you've mentioned as a problem. Is having a useable Appolonius going to overpower Group 1 Brujah? I don't think so. (Obviously, vampires like Anson are great as they are and don't need Advanced versions.) Compare the Discipline spreads of say, Sebastian Marely with Leatherface. There's a lot of Group 1 vampires with discipline spreads that are substaintially weaker than thier relative Sabbat counterparts and with most Camarilla vampires from Group 3 onward. In general, upgrading vampires from wallpaper status to useful can only help the game.

In addition, I think it would be intresting to have several Group 1 & 2 Malkavian Advanced makeovers that swapped out Dominate for Dementation. Considering how cumbersome it is to merge vampires I don't think this would be a problem either. Rather, it would give players a chance to revisit old Malkavian decks upgraded with the current Malkavian/Dementation standard.

An expansion that returns to older Groups would be a fun way for players to consider novel new variations on old deck themes that would bring some much needed life back to those old cards.

CalibanX wrote:

If the majority of the Advanced vampires were large, I don't see the scenarios you've mentioned as a problem.

Depends what you're doing. Take the Ventrue Law Firm as an example, it mostly focuses 7s and 8s - Timothy, Walter, Emerson, maybe the occasional Wilhelm Waldberg, that sort of thing. But it usually doubles up on at least some of those vampires. Then, say that Natasha Volfchek is a bit underpowered - 7 points of disciplines, no DOM, +1 bleed and a poor title on a vampire who, by a naive design points check, should have at least 10-11 points of stuff, and probably struggles to break 9. So you tweak her and give her an advanced version. If she's now attractive to Law Firm, then that can mean it doesn't have to double on Walter or Emerson, so it has a slightly nicer crypt distribution. Or has she become attractive to Obfuscate Ventrue, with similar results? Or if you've tweaked her but, say, turned her into more of a combat vampire (nudging that cel/pot towards CEL/POT), who does she team up with? If she's there in splendid isolation, you have a pretty vampire that doesn't work well in any actual decks.

CalibanX wrote:

Is having a useable Anson going to overpower Group 1 Brujah?

Anson? Do you mean Anvil (who is already very usable)? Appolonius? That's probably mildly different, in that he wouldn't easily combine with the Euro-Brujah, unless he sprang Dominate from somewhere, and the points on PRE would be a bit wasted. There's a bit of an existing gap for Brujah being good as Brujah in group 1 at the big end, or with Fortitude - give him the tools to combine with Gwendolyn and something fun might happen there that doesn't currently exist very well.

But an advanced Tura Vaughn with a decent special ability or improved title, might well make a Euro-Brujah deck a little better.

CalibanX wrote:

Compare the Discipline spreads of say, Sebastian Marely with Leatherface.

If you're looking at bad Nosferatu, an improved Murat (for example) would make Nosferatu Royalty better - while it can use Murat at the moment, his disciplines are a bit rubbish - and a whole bunch of terrible mid-high cap Nosferatu could make such a deck a bit better.

Where there isn't an existing deck strategy that could be boosted, more advanced vampires aren't generally going to be a huge problem. Where a vampire is advanced in a way that means it doesn't contribute to those existing strategies, there's also good potential there - the Brujah that was secretly a Giovanni spy and becomes an Independent Giovanni in the advanced version is potentially okay too. But if you're looking at 30-40 group 1 and 2 vampires, there are only so many times you can defy convention before that becomes a little worn out.

CalibanX wrote:

In addition, I think it would be intresting to have several Group 1 & 2 Malkavian Advanced makeovers that swapped out Dominate for Dementation.

Potentially a boost for group 2 Obf/Dem decks already. If any of the vampires you do this to are group 2, could combine with existing group 2/3 decks. Damaskenos, for example, is a bit lacklustre as a Malkavian, and has turned up in 3 TWDs ever, and none in the last 13 years - but swapping out his DOM for DEM might be unpleasant, given that mono-DEM works quite well.

CalibanX wrote:

I've been working on a Bindusara deck and got to thinking, boy, this guy is crying out to get Advanced. So, here's an idea:

Bindusara Advanced:

"Allies and younger vampires must burn a blood or life to attempt to block Bindusara's Undirected Actions."

Merged:

"Prince of Istanbul"


And while I'm on the topic of Advanced vampires, I think it would be really exciting to have an Expansion dedicated to introducing (maybe 40?) new Advanced vampires with a focus on using vampires from Groups 1 and 2. There's plenty of lack luster vampires from those groups that never get used that would really benefit from some creative Advanced versions.

I had the same opinion,

But Bindusara isnt political, hes a scholar. So, additional hand size, summoning Nod fragments newer than him, agg stopping specials, and intercept seemed good.

I think i made a version in card creator, but cant remember. Anyway,

Cam, advanced: Bindusara gains 1 blood during each untap phase of any methuselah who controls a Nod fragment or a unique location with library in the name.
(Merged) Bindusara treats aggravated damage as normal in combat. +1 intercept. +1 hand size.

So, hes great wall merged, and isnt better than Gotsdam or Owain unmerged.

Advanced vamps need be based on game need and balance, as well as making the game stay interesting (so making borderline vamps playable counts), not based upon Gehenna adv vamps being "meh" compared to most base versions.(looking at Beckett, Ferox, Dylan, Bell, and you get the idea.)


James is right about all the old group stuff.......

Pick junk or almost good stuff (Murats purpose in life is second trad snakepunch, I think...) and make it good. G1,2,3 all have it. Look at Appalonious, Faruq, Gunther as junk, Murat, Maxwell, Willaim Biltmore as almost good/great. All could get advanced vrsions.