more primogen tech

NOTE: the cards below should have "burn this card if..." and should require Camarilla vampire yadda yadda.


"Toreador Primogen"
Requires a Toreador.
If successful, put this card on your eldest untitled Toreador to represent the title of Primogen.
Requires a Primogen. Only usable during a referendum. Your untitled Toreador gain +1 vote.
EDIT: Only usable during a referendum. Your titled Toreador gain one vote.

I don't think we've seen a combo card including a political action. There's no reason why it couldn't exist.

"Brujah Primogen"
Requires a Brujah.
If successful, put this card on your eldest untitled Brujah to represent the title of Primogen.
Requires a Primogen. Usable by a vampire not involved in the combat. Cancel a maneuver played by a minion opposing a Brujah in combat.
EDIT: Only usable by an untapped Brujah Primogen at the end of combat involving another Brujah. This vampire enters combat with the opposing vampire. The opposing vampire does not get an initial strike the first round.


It could have different effects depending on the clan, and the secondary effect doesn't have to be political.

"Tremere Primogen"
Requires a Tremere.
If successful, put this card on your eldest untitled Tremere to represent the title of Primogen.
Requires a Primmogen. Usable as a Tremere announces an action or strike requiring Thaumaturgy. The Tremere may play the card as if he or she had superior Thaumaturgy.


"Ventrue Primogen"
Requires a Ventrue.
If successful, put this card on your eldest untitled Ventrue to represent the title of Primogen.
EDIT: Unique. Requires a Primogen. Play a Praxis Seizure from any ash heap or search your library for one. Or choose a City title in play. If successful, put this card on the acting Ventrue to represent title Prince of the chosen city.

direwolf wrote:

"Toreador Primogen"
Requires a Toreador.
If successful, put this card on your eldest untitled Toreador to represent the title of Primogen.
Requires a Primogen. Only usable during a referendum. Your untitled Toreador gain +1 vote.

I don't think we've seen a combo card including a political action. There's no reason why it couldn't exist.

"Brujah Primogen"
Requires a Brujah.
If successful, put this card on your eldest untitled Brujah to represent the title of Primogen.
Requires a Primogen. Usable by a vampire not involved in the combat. Cancel a maneuver played by a minion opposing a Brujah in combat.

Compare the two of these and the secondary effect is potentially massively more powerful for the Toreador. Breed boon, in particular, could use it quite a bit - yes, Primogen can't use Third Tradition, but using Embrace doesn't stop a number of successful breed boon decks using one, the other or both (or the clan/sect-appropriate equiavlent). e.g. this from Hugh: Fall of Burton: Buckets O' Money 2008 .

For a Brujah, there are massively better options - Flash, Thrown Gate, Majesty or whatever. For the Toreador, they basically get a very solid building block for a breed-boon deck that doesn't have the blood requirements of Awe. (You can top up with Voter Cap, obviously, but if you're down blood already from breeding, you can't use Awe to push the next vote so much.)

direwolf wrote:

"Tremere Primogen"
Requires a Tremere.
If successful, put this card on your eldest untitled Tremere to represent the title of Primogen.
Requires a Primmogen. Usable as a Tremere announces an action or strike requiring Thaumaturgy. The Tremere may play the card as if he or she had superior Thaumaturgy.

Doesn't really feel like a Primogen thing. Also that neither of the vampires involved needs superior Thaumaturgy seems a bit weird.

direwolf wrote:

"Ventrue Primogen"
Requires a Ventrue.
If successful, put this card on your eldest untitled Ventrue to represent the title of Primogen.
Requires a Primogen. Play a Praxis Seizure from any ash heap or search your library for one. Or choose a City title in play. If successful, put this card on the acting Ventrue to represent title Prince of the chosen city.

Being able to selectively hose city titles that are in play strikes me as very powerful, as it could take out a deck's ability to play a lot of cards - everything from Second Tradition to Parity Shift to Third Tradition to Archon for the Camarilla. And while it's certainly arguable that Camarilla Prince decks could probably do with a few additional foils:

a) I'm not sure giving the Ventrue the ability to do that is the right thing, because it seems to consolidate power in their already powerful hands
b) this also lets you selectively taret non-Cam city titles. In particular Anarch Barons probably don't need the extra hassle.

Thanks James for the thoughtful feedback. I was mostly throwing ideas out there.

Comparing the Tor and Bru card ideas.... of COURSE the Toreador card is better, as it should be!

seriously, yes the Brujah secondary effect is extremely lackluster. The Toreador secondary is probably too powerful. (i will address in an edit above)

As for the Tremere secondary, I argue that it is most certainly a "Primogen thing." The Tremere clan flaw is blood bond to her sire, and the clan is very organized and hierarchal. A primogen Tremere giving thaumaturgical aid to another of her clan makes perfect sense!

The Ventrue secondary to contest titles is dastardly, but well within what I expect of the clan. To curb it's power, it's secondary could be unique.

(also, the argument "Anarch Barons probably don't need the extra hassle" is really a meta-game issue. How often will you see an Anarch Baron deck and a deck using the above described card at the same table? Not that often.

Brujah getting what amounts to a Hidden Lurker/Fast Reactions isn't that special either. Any Brujah looking for a fight has Bum's Rush, Ambush, Harass or maybe a Haven Uncovered to do his dirty work.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Brujah getting what amounts to a Hidden Lurker/Fast Reactions isn't that special either. Any Brujah looking for a fight has Bum's Rush, Ambush, Harass or maybe a Haven Uncovered to do his dirty work.

Requires a Brujah Primogen. This vampire hoists a bleeding vampire you control onto his shoulder. He fights any blocking minion (one handed.) This action continues until all blockers have declined or this Brujah goes to torpor. When all blockers have declined, the Brujah sets the bleeding vampire down and she continues the bleed action.

There, you fucking happy?

direwolf wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Brujah getting what amounts to a Hidden Lurker/Fast Reactions isn't that special either. Any Brujah looking for a fight has Bum's Rush, Ambush, Harass or maybe a Haven Uncovered to do his dirty work.

Requires a Brujah Primogen. This vampire hoists a bleeding vampire you control onto his shoulder. He fights any blocking minion (one handed.) This action continues until all blockers have declined or this Brujah goes to torpor. When all blockers have declined, the Brujah sets the bleeding vampire down and she continues the bleed action.

There, you fucking happy?

needs more cowbell.