Submission: Bargain For Power, a way to make your minions infernal.
10 Dec 2015 09:01 - 10 Dec 2015 09:03 #74614
by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Submission: Bargain For Power, a way to make your minions infernal.
So, several points, slightly out of order:
If you're worried about Temporis and Obeah in particular, you could ban those by name. I don't think that getting Thanatosis or Valeren or Spiritus at the cost of Infernalism is that big a deal. And it might make that elusive Baali/!Salubri Blessing of the Name deck finally into the tournament sensation it was always destined to be.
That's an explanation of what the card does, and that there isn't another card that does the same thing. That's not the same as a compelling game need - because literally any card you make up can be made different from existing cards, and do a thing. What holes in existing Baali decks are you hoping to address? Which existing sub-par vampires are you hoping to gather together into an effective deck? In what way will this make the game better? What about the card will make it see active play? Which decks would you see using it well?
Assuming the card is useful, it feels like it suffers from the same problem as a lot of "setup" cards - see many deck ideas that start "Well, first Arika plays Clan Impersonation then...":
1) Assuming it's something you want to liven up some vampires in your crypt, you want it early, but it's a library card, so you need to stuff quite a few in.
2) When you draw the others later in the game, you have a lot, lot less you can do with them, because it requires a non-infernal vampire and turns it into an infernal vampire, and you can only have one per vampire.
3) It doesn't sit well with other infernal vampires you might be playing alongside, because they can't play it or cycle it at all.
(There is the possibility of a breed deck creating babies and giving them Daimoinon this way. Hmm.)
Most people don't play the unique discipline-granting equipment much for the disciplines, because of that sort of thing - it's harder to get them out reliably (unless you Magic of the Smith them), and why carry a vampire around without much or any Potence until you draw Hand of Conrad? And you don't usually want lots in the deck, because they're unique. One or two have backup special abilities or alternative uses that save them a little bit, but not really great for livening up a deck.
Two alternatives to mind:
a) Give the card an alternative use somehow. "[action] Requires a non-infernal vampire... [act mod] Requires an infernal vampire. Only usable after a successful bleed for 2 or less against your prey. This vampire gains a blood." Makes it easier to use in reasonable quantities, because you can use up the later copies. I'd be aiming for an alternative use that is decent enough, without being super-duper triple awesome.
b) Go the Anarch Convert route and make it a 'special' crypt card. Fewer actions used. You can fish for it with Wider View, which isn't a terrible card anyway, or use your normal transfers to fish for it. Probably something like "When Demonic Servant enters play, choose another vampire you control and move it to that vampire, or remove it from the game. The vampire with Demonic Servant is infernal..." etc. Or something like that, doesn't have to be exactly that.
This would all hinge on it actually addressing a compelling game need, though - is it actually doing something good for the game at the end of it?
Notes: Yes, you can choose
, thus gaining superior level of it. I am bit worried about this making it too easy to get some of the other exotic disciplines, but can't think of a proper cost or requirement to balance it. Originally I also had the card to increase the vampire's capacity by 1, but deemed it too easy to abuse in Soul Gem decks.
If you're worried about Temporis and Obeah in particular, you could ban those by name. I don't think that getting Thanatosis or Valeren or Spiritus at the cost of Infernalism is that big a deal. And it might make that elusive Baali/!Salubri Blessing of the Name deck finally into the tournament sensation it was always destined to be.
Compelling game need: Currently there is no viable way to make your own minions infernal, Barbaro Lucchese does not count. Also a way to get some of those elusive bloodline disciplines at the cost of becoming infernal.
That's an explanation of what the card does, and that there isn't another card that does the same thing. That's not the same as a compelling game need - because literally any card you make up can be made different from existing cards, and do a thing. What holes in existing Baali decks are you hoping to address? Which existing sub-par vampires are you hoping to gather together into an effective deck? In what way will this make the game better? What about the card will make it see active play? Which decks would you see using it well?
Name: Bargain For Power
Cardtype: Action
Cost: none
+2 stealth action. Requires a non-infernal vampire.
Put this card on the acting vampire. Choose a discipline, vampire with this card gains a level of the chosen discipline and a level of daimonion
Assuming the card is useful, it feels like it suffers from the same problem as a lot of "setup" cards - see many deck ideas that start "Well, first Arika plays Clan Impersonation then...":
1) Assuming it's something you want to liven up some vampires in your crypt, you want it early, but it's a library card, so you need to stuff quite a few in.
2) When you draw the others later in the game, you have a lot, lot less you can do with them, because it requires a non-infernal vampire and turns it into an infernal vampire, and you can only have one per vampire.
3) It doesn't sit well with other infernal vampires you might be playing alongside, because they can't play it or cycle it at all.
(There is the possibility of a breed deck creating babies and giving them Daimoinon this way. Hmm.)
Most people don't play the unique discipline-granting equipment much for the disciplines, because of that sort of thing - it's harder to get them out reliably (unless you Magic of the Smith them), and why carry a vampire around without much or any Potence until you draw Hand of Conrad? And you don't usually want lots in the deck, because they're unique. One or two have backup special abilities or alternative uses that save them a little bit, but not really great for livening up a deck.
Two alternatives to mind:
a) Give the card an alternative use somehow. "[action] Requires a non-infernal vampire... [act mod] Requires an infernal vampire. Only usable after a successful bleed for 2 or less against your prey. This vampire gains a blood." Makes it easier to use in reasonable quantities, because you can use up the later copies. I'd be aiming for an alternative use that is decent enough, without being super-duper triple awesome.
b) Go the Anarch Convert route and make it a 'special' crypt card. Fewer actions used. You can fish for it with Wider View, which isn't a terrible card anyway, or use your normal transfers to fish for it. Probably something like "When Demonic Servant enters play, choose another vampire you control and move it to that vampire, or remove it from the game. The vampire with Demonic Servant is infernal..." etc. Or something like that, doesn't have to be exactly that.
This would all hinge on it actually addressing a compelling game need, though - is it actually doing something good for the game at the end of it?
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