file [Submissions] Trenchcoats and Katanas

10 Nov 2019 22:57 - 10 Nov 2019 23:18 #97747 by jamesatzephyr

elotar wrote: Shopping Mall
Master.Trifle.
Unique location
Tap to add +1 stealth for action to equip with non-location or non-weapon. You may use counters from investment card you control to pay part or all cost of this equipment.


I am mildly sceptical about the cost mechanic here. It combines some master cards that are mostly bad, with another unique master card, and makes the ordering of cards turning up a lot more tricky. As the Mall is unique, how many are you putting in your deck? Assuming you want to tool up with equipment fairly early, how many investments are you putting in your deck to get one fairly quickly? Assuming you stuff with a few to draw them early, once you've tooled up with enough equipment, you're probably now chucking away unnecessary equipment and unnecessary investments, and possibly some duplicate Shopping Malls, which is a bit jammy. Assuming you take a much lighter number, getting the stars to align is much harder - so quite a few games, you'll be getting that Helicopter out with its normal cost, or not getting it out.

With a Protracted Investment, you get 3 pool to spend on equipment (because you could have spent the 2 cost anyway). With Secret Horde, to get any sizable amount more than that you have to lock up quite a bit - which makes Shopping Mall a tempting location to destroy/steal, just to lock your pool up there. Ventrue Investment might like it a little, and is probably the main Investment that doesn't make me want to cry - but makes the Mall quite niche.

It's also competing in the very competitive master space. You could just be playing Villein and Giant's Blood, and get back a ton of pool. It feels like it needs a lot more oomph to play in the master space (perhaps ditching the separate investment card angle), or would benefit from doing something similar-ish in a different card space - a shopping spree action or event, perhaps, as the two most obvious alternatives.


Edit to add: Also, re-reading the card text some more, I notice:

a) it's once per turn, and
b) as phrased, it appears it only works for cost reduction on an action where you tap it for stealth. But since, as phrased, you can't add the stealth unnecessarily, you may find yourself equipping with Methuselahs around you who can't generate any intercept - or who might tactically choose not to do so, figuring that making you pay pool for equipment and leaving your counters locked up on your investment is better for them.
Last edit: 10 Nov 2019 23:18 by jamesatzephyr.

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11 Nov 2019 06:00 - 11 Nov 2019 06:05 #97754 by elotar

jamesatzephyr wrote: b) as phrased, it appears it only works for cost reduction on an action where you tap it for stealth. But since, as phrased, you can't add the stealth unnecessarily, you may find yourself equipping with Methuselahs around you who can't generate any intercept - or who might tactically choose not to do so, figuring that making you pay pool for equipment and leaving your counters locked up on your investment is better for them.


Good catch, it should be reworded.

But it shoves logic behind a card - it was mostly aimed at providing stealth, investment part is just a bonus. I'm aiming for 1-2 Malls and 0-3 investment cards in a deck, not some serious dedication.

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Last edit: 11 Nov 2019 06:05 by elotar.

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11 Nov 2019 09:04 #97757 by Kraus
Out of these, I think the Shopping Mall has most potential, and could have a niche in some specific decks. Trifle Locations always find a place in Guillaume decks at least.

I would make it for non-location and non-unique though. You should find a baseball bat or a meat cleaver from a mall. It's not out of the ordinary to find a hunting or a gun shop either. It's fine both by flavour and balance.

Anything that helps Investments is good. They are mathematically awful, but lore-wise grand.

The effect in itself is on the weak side. Maybe +2 Stealth for good measure.

About the others, they are kinda fun in flavor when you look at them through nostalgia goggles, but then again katana is being a 'fast' weapon or otherwise superior is mostly romanticized. The idea behind a trench coat is fun though. I could see a variation of this finding a niche.

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11 Nov 2019 20:25 #97760 by Sambomb
Maybe the mall could be burned during your untap to add counters to one of your investment, then you could:
Turn 1: Play mall, play investment
Turn 2: Burn mall, Play another mall, something else...

Katana should have first strike once per combat only, shambling horde katanas would be nice a nice deck.

Trenchcoat could have 2 options:
Burn to strike: dodge
Burn ( before range ) to equip with up to 2 weapons ( same restriction of Concealed weapon )
Dual Uzi trenchcoat is as iconic as Katana trenchcoat because Matrix!
Pay 1 pool to untap after equip.

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Prince ID #510

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11 Nov 2019 20:51 #97761 by narpassword
>Katana should have first strike once per combat only, shambling horde katanas would be nice a nice deck.


Its things like this that make me ask 'why would a katana grant first strike'?

if youre a shambling corpse - why is it holding a sword all of a sudden gives you higher speed/dex?

What about a weapon that adds an effect 'if the bearer has [discipline] then <effect>?

for instance, a katana could do strength +1 in combat, and 'if the bearer has [cel] the initial strike with this weapon this round is a first strike'

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11 Nov 2019 21:13 #97762 by Lech
There is no reason at all why katana should have fast strike. To be honest, it should be just like bastard sword. Now, we can talk about for example why are melee weapons bad compared to ranged weapons.

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Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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