file [Submission] Disciplineless Redirect

18 Nov 2019 14:10 - 29 Nov 2019 10:14 #97867 by elotar
I've already mentioned it in some obscure thread, but let's put it here for clarity.

Russian Roulette
Reaction
Cost: :blood:
Only usable when you are being bled by 3 or more, after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another Methuselah other than the controller of the acting minion. The acting minion is now bleeding that Methuselah.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:
Last edit: 29 Nov 2019 10:14 by elotar.

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18 Nov 2019 17:53 #97874 by LivesByProxy
But there is already a disciplineless redirect card: Lost In Translation.

And giving everyone a bounce is on par with giving everyone their own Conditioning. It would ruin the distinctions of each clan and be tantamount to giving everyone Dominate...


:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.
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18 Nov 2019 18:56 #97878 by ReverendRevolver
Bounce is strong. Too strong. Lost in Translation is acutely aware of this, hence age restrictions and cost.

For 1blood nondiscipline bounce to balance it would have to read
"only usable when a non-titled vampire of capacity less than 7, or an Ally is bleeding you for 4 or more at 2 or more stealth. Only usable if your predator is acting."
Then the bounce stuff.

Defensively, there is an unbelievable amount of design space untapped here

(I can use untapped in this context still? Hugh, Ben?) ;)

Why bounce, which is an enormous swing of things now involving a third party than originally intended for the action, when the other options are so niche an unused?
bleed sinks with :POT: :CEL: :PRO: or flight would LOVE something that helped them not die while punishing heavy bleeders.
Tap and enter combat? Can get abusive fast, but it's a cool design space.
:ANI: card that inflicts 1 damage for each point of stealth used?
Even if its after the action?
:FOR: untap only usable on bleeds that reduces bleed by one at superior regardless of successful block?

Or maybe a :malk: !malk! Card that inflicts 3 damage on bleeds of 3 or 5 or 7 or 9? Or 4 or 6 or 8?

Even Bleedins
Reaction
:malk: :!malk!:
Only usable if you are being bled for 4, 6, or 8. Inflict 3 unpreventable damage on the acting minion.

We got bounce. We have reduction. We need more creative ways to interact and defend against bleeds.
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18 Nov 2019 19:52 #97880 by elotar
Lost in translation is a wallpaper. And actually this card is quite balanced with it - if you predator ads 2 and 2 and will start bleeding just for 2, than you suddenly will be defenseless if you rely solely on Roulette.

Other ways to interact with bleeds may be possible, but, unfortunately, nothing really interesting was invented during quarter of century. We have to stop lying to ourselves.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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18 Nov 2019 19:57 #97881 by elotar

LivesByProxy wrote: It would ruin the distinctions of each clan and be tantamount to giving everyone Dominate...


Actually it will add distinctions between clans as there will be real reasons other than lulz to play some clan without :dom: or :aus:

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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18 Nov 2019 20:51 #97882 by Palamedes
Of course you want to redirect bleed for 3 or more, so it's really not a restriction. For 1 blood this is just too powerfull, and I don't see the need for this, since we already have disciplineless redirect. I don't see Lost in Translation as a wallpaper card. I see it as a very nice surprise in a deck without bouncing discipline.
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