Newb with newb opinions

Hi, all!

I just picked up the Barbed Wire pack off ebay. I'd played this game when it was called Jyhad -- or atleast tried to get my friends to play -- but it never really caught on. Anyway, fast forward to now, I was looking for a better multiplayer CCG than M:tG that I could play with the family, and I remembered Jyhad. Which, in turn, lead to picking up the starter decks.

I'd forgotten what a good game this is! While the rules are probably more complex than some other CCG's, they're only more complex because what cards/actions can be played are limited to specific phases of play -- much more so than say M:tG (where an instant or ability can essentially be cast/activated at any point). So what you gain from a more complex turn structure is probably a more robust game. Again, I'm a newbie and might be way off here.

Totally bummed to find out the game has been discontinued. So, I've been asking myself, "why did this game never catch on?" I think two things really hold this game back:

1) WoD setting. I like the setting. I think the game handles more abstract ideas like "influence" and "torpor" masterfully. However, by strapping itself to a rather complex, nuanced setting from another game, I think V:tES marginalized a portion of the potential player base -- those players that just want a CCG and not necessarily be shoe-horned with an RPG. Even now, looking at some of the newer cards, I really have no idea exactly what "Sabbat", "Camarilla" and "Inconnu" mean because I never got into WW's games all that much.

2) Too much information in icons. This is something every CCG I've come across other than M:tG is guilty of. By putting information in the form of icons and not plain english, the cards are no longer intuitive. However, V:tES cards have a lot of information -- it would really take a master graphic designer to pack in all the information of a typical V:tES card and keep it intuitive -- something a new player could understand the gist of at first glance.

I'm sure this has all been discussed ad nauseam, but I thought my view -- basically as a first time player -- might be valuable on some level.

Super happy to find this site with people committed to keeping the game going!

The complexity is the real issue. Icons are needed. Many vtes players usex to play mtg. We cost alot of legal fees to be back in print, and our ip holders are wotc/hasbro and ccp, both of which arent currently wanting to print us.

Welcome to the game, though.

Theres a long learning curve, and the setting isnt really a barrier as much as youd think, given what typical gamers are used to, and we apply to an audience more into horror than wizards as well.

The keywords aren't that bad, because they generally don't do anything on their own, like for example, Camarilla doesn't do anything, but there are cards and abilities that specifically do something to camarilla for example. So you don't really need to know what Camarilla means from the rpg.

something to look into is using proxies and card sleeves. it's what my group does as none of our players have any desire to play in tournaments.

alzabo wrote:

2) Too much information in icons. This is something every CCG I've come across other than M:tG is guilty of. By putting information in the form of icons and not plain english, the cards are no longer intuitive. However, V:tES cards have a lot of information -- it would really take a master graphic designer to pack in all the information of a typical V:tES card and keep it intuitive -- something a new player could understand the gist of at first glance.

It certainly can look overwhelming, yes. The main symbols you need to really understand are the ones indicating card type and cost. (In theory, also how "Burn Option" is represented.) And the difference in shape for basic and superior disciplines.

Most of the rest of it can be handled by symbol matching, while you learn the game. TopHat, Rose, Rose with a Wax Seal, Fist, and Black Square don't have much actual game meaning on their own. They mostly enable the play of cards, or trigger particular bits of card text. And so while any conversation you have will be a little slower, it shouldn't prevent you from playing to any significant degree.

Of course, this won't immediately be obvious to newbie players.


And actually, increased use of icons on library cards has made some things better. In years gone by, you might get card text that said something like "Put this card on a CLANNAME" or "CLANNAME cannot block this action" or "Only usable when a vampire without DISCIPLINE attempts to block thies action". They used to just have the text word, meaning that you had to know what the word meant. In more recent sets, the common standard is to print a small version of the icon the first time a clan or discipline symbol is used on a given card.

There is an easier analogy between the raft of symbols and a "traditional" RPG game or D&D game.

I'm still a 3.5E D&D lover. If you could imagine the LONG list of skills being replaced by symbols representing those skills then you're about 90% of the way there with VTES.

The symbols cover skills, either the vampire has it or they don't. If you don't have the symbol half-way down the left-hand edge, you can't use the card. You have to have a copy of that symbol on a vampire face up in front of you to use the card. After that, read the text.

[Edit] Some cards might have two or three symbols. If they appear together then the vampire needs BOTH. If they appear on their own, they can use the versions they have. [End Edit]

Diamond-level symbol can use either ability. 'Square'-level symbol can only use the first/weaker ability.

If you want more help, let the people know roughly where you live and someone can meet you up for a game hopefully.