New Player: Basic Game or Advanced Game and / or Variants

Hello y'all, new player here!

I had only played a few games using the basic game rules with no more than 3 players as I am struggling to teach my friends the core concepts. I am looking for some advice to ease VTES for my friends. The hardest part, for me, are combat and the timings during actions.

Also, when should I introduce the concepts of the advance game?

Finally, are the variants listed on the VTES rulebook popular?. I am referring to Increased Blood, Increased Strength, and Clan Enmity

Thank you!

Hello there!

I'm also fairly new, but here's some resources I found useful:

Brett Scho's VTES Combat Guide

Since combat has so many mini-steps in between the Manuever, Strike, and Press steps, I would just keep it super basic and avoid cards like Immortal Grapple, Carrion Crows, Taste of Vitae, etc etc.

I would also ignore the Grouping rule in favor of finding the best (most appealing) art for the Crypts you're working with. This is up to your discretion and taste, obviously. XD I strongly believe that great artwork is the gateway for getting people into the game.

There are also Self Biased's Demo Decks .

How familiar with are your friends with the WoD? If they are totally new, I would recommend sticking to the Camarilla Seven, like those demo decks do.

Also, by 'advanced game' do you mean rules like diablerie, aggravated damage, and the blood hunt? Do the other 12+ non-Camarilla Clans count as 'advanced'? I would introduce them to those concepts once they firmly grasp the basics, but introduce things piece by piece. And as tempting as it may be to show off the wide variety of cards and possibilities, keep it simple at first - I probably wouldn't have less than 3x of each card in the deck, as having half-a-dozen 1x cards will slow down the game as each player has to stop and read more. Also, if games can end quicker rather than later, that's a good thing. Better to end too soon and leave players wanting to play another match of VTES than going too long and making them want to quit playing.

Basic vs. Advanced game rules? Genuinely asking: is there a distinction somewhere?

Are there rules that you are leaving out?

Not saying that it's a bad thing to be honest. Following the link in Proxy's post above, you can find a download link to some demo decks both from Self Biased, as well as me. While Self Biased's decks are simple but include mostly all rules of the game, mine strip down many rules to speed up the game. If you have trouble following all phases of combat for example, you can try those.

Other than that, Proxy's suggestions might help. What decks are you using? What are the biggest problems you're facing?

About those play variants you mentioned, I honestly cannot tell if I've ever even heard of them. So no, people usually enjoy standard constructed, preferably with 5 players. There have been some 3 player variants that might make it a bit more fun, but when you're starting out and learning the rules, I'd suggest you don't add any rules outside of standard rulebook, and just keep on going.

Don't be disheartened if any deck seems overpowered in 3-way. Chances are, it is. It all evens out in 5 player games however. But at the beginning it's all about the rules anyways, not who's winning, isn't it.

DanielG wrote:

I had only played a few games using the basic game rules with no more than 3 players as I am struggling to teach my friends the core concepts. I am looking for some advice to ease VTES for my friends. The hardest part, for me, are combat and the timings during actions.

Also, when should I introduce the concepts of the advance game?

As soon as possible.

The distinction between the basic game and the advanced game in the rulebook from the V:TES base set from 1995 isn't one that caught on at all. It makes a few things in the game work really oddly, and nothing really expects you to be playing it. Pretty much all cards and strategies are designed for the full game.

You may find it easier to work with the most recent rulebook: www.vekn.net/rulebook

DanielG wrote:

Finally, are the variants listed on the VTES rulebook popular?. I am referring to Increased Blood, Increased Strength, and Clan Enmity

They're essentially never used. You can find Storyline events where slightly variant rules - and/or special cards - are used to represent something going on in the World of Darkness, but if you're not playing a special game like that, almost everyone just uses the standard tournament rules (even when not playing tournaments). The main difference in playing a tournament deck is that people have decks of up to 90 cards, even if they're playing with fewer players.

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

some background information:

My Friends know nothing about WoD and VTES and I know very Little about WoD.

What got me into the game was the art and the political aspect. Being originally designed by Richard Garfield also helped as I am a fan of Netrunner and his other games..

I currently have a Nosferatu, Toreador, Gangrel, Brujah and Malkavian deck using cards from mainly the base set and 1 or 2 cards from the early expansions. The decks are probably not good

The "advance game" is the game using all the mechanics from the rulebook

The basic game is quite different

combat is simplified: there is only one round of combat, and no additional strikes, presses or maneuvers.

There is no aggravated damage

Torpor doesn't exist and neither torpor related actions such as diablerie.. vampires just burn.

The only standard minion action action that can be blocked is bleeding and action cards that don't have +1 stealth.

There are some other diferences, but I think those are the main ones

For those curious, below are the variants just as they appear on the rulebbok

APPENDIX A: Variant Rules
After you've explored the rules, try placing these rules variants in your V:TES sessions. The variants, though simple, are desgined to drastically speed up game play. They may be used idnividually or all together

Increased Blood:
A vampire's bleed equals the number of blood counters on her divided by 2 (rounded up). THerefore, a vampire with 9 or 10 blood on her could bleed for 5 points of damage.

Treat any cards that refer to a base blood as added bleed damage. This also applies to cards from the original Jyhad set

Example: A card that wouldd give a vmpire a base bleed of 2 would give her +2 bleed in thsi variant.

Also, players will find the bleeding score fo allies (such as Thadius Zho) are far less powerful when compared to the bleedign score of most vampires. After all, most allies are but mere mrotals.

Increased Damage:
Hand damage equals the number of blood counters on her divided by 2 (rounded up). Therefore,a vampire with 9 or 10 blood on her could do 5 points of hand damage.

Example: in Jyhad, Angus the Unruled is a 10 capacity vampire that has a special ability of dealing 2 hand damage. In this variant, Angus has a +2 to hand damage and can strike for 7 points at close range!

You will also find that higher capacity vampires really don't need weapons if they have such monstrously high scores. On the other and, without weapons or maneuver cards, if a gun-wielding opponent can maneuver to long range, she can deal severe damage to an unarmed opponent.


I guess I will stick with the Camarilla vampires for now and intrdouced each core mechanic one at a time, but at a quick pace

Oh my god, what is this, original Jyhad rules? I've never heard of these! To be fair, it sounds really fun as an idea, but I would definitely not use them when learning the game.

Jyhad only decks can be super fun, I've heard, but you'll have to make sure everyone has enough Blood Dolls and Minion Taps to have a proper grip of the game.

Basic and Advanced rules sound something like what Jyhad would've done. Those who played back then can probably give a more informed opinion. I would suggest you use the VEKN online rulebook James linked above.

Did you know that printing proxies is tournament legal these days? See Amaranth deck builder and printing tool, it's really useful.

amaranth.vtes.co.nz/

And if none of you have too much experience with VTES of WOD, the most important advice I can give you is keep at it, recruit a couple of more friends to eventually make 5 player tables, and try to accept that learning the ropes can take a while. VTES is not that complex to be honest, but it might take some time to grasp what is fundamental, and what is kinda trivial. The absolute basics aren't really that hard at all.

I sure hope you can make your group invested. We have just gotten two new players, and it's so great to see them eager to learn and experiment with all their wacky ideas. Once you get familiar with how the game flows, the first few years can be a rollercoaster of great time. Remember that it's just a game, even if all your guys are torporised and eaten, and have fun. It's the most important rule.