NC meeting Warsaw 2015

for Brett Schofield and others who may be interested:


VEKN National Co-ordinator Meeting
Warsaw
28th August 2015

Attendees:

VEKN (6)
GQ Ginés Quiñonero - VEKN Chairman Web coordinator & Spain NC
PB Pascal Bertrand - VEKN Rules Team & French NC
MK Michal Kazmierczak - VEKN Marketing Team
VR Vincent Ripoll - VEKN Ratings Co-ordinator
BP Ben Peal - VEKN Design Team Leader & US NC
MN Mike Nudd - VEKN Design Team & Storyline coordinator

National Coordinators (11 +3 above in IC list)
RU Richard Utner - Austria (for Carl Pilhatsch)
AD Anton Dudko - Belarus
EI Emiliano Imeroni - Belgium (for Dennis Devriendt)
PD Peter Ducai - Czech Republic & Slovak Republic (Czech Michal Dlouhý)
RG Rudolf Garski - Germany (for Andreas Nusser)
PT Peter Talmacsi - Hungary (for Mate Vaka)
RFa Riccardo Fabiani - Italy
RFl Remek Flasinki - Poland
TB Tiago Brum - Portugal
RR Randal Rudstam - Sweden
HA Hugh Angseesing - Secretary, United Kingdom and Playtest Coordinator


Start: 22.25

Meeting held in Hotel Warsaw Plaza, Warsaw.

Actions

RFa to organise, with Italian players Genoa EC in 2016.
RFa to announce EC 2016 location
PB/VR to follow up with Fernando Cesar regards Lackey
BP to get more details around Walch and Nusser, Inner Circle to look at options going forwards
GQ/BP to acquire a copy of tri-snake agreement from Robert Goudie or investigate further as necessary
GQ/BP to create submission guidelines for Grand Prix
PB/MK to arrange ordering sheet for 2016 t-shirts/web survey
HA/PB to follow up with Ke Carlton around his playmat
GQ/RFa/Secretary of 2016 to arrange elections for 2016 meeting as required
Minutes


1. RFa announced that Italy was still keen on hosting EC 2016 and this would be in Genoa.

The event is likely to be held in the middle of November 2016.

TB asked how these were announced/discussed and GQ reminded that the best place was still the NC forum to discuss venues/options

2. PB and VR were asked to comment upon what they were doing.

3. PB – currently working templating all cards for any potential reprint.

PD and others commented that this is a good idea.
BP asked NCs to encourage players to check for language issues e.g. in the pdf set cards, as what is “obvious” for a native English speaker isn’t necessarily obvious to others.

PB/VR – asked if it would be possible to implement new text in Lackey.
HA – stated that “Sydnelson” [Fernando Cesar] uses .csv in a similar way to ARDB etc so would be the best contact to further this.

4. PB talked about how proxies had worked for the French National Championships qualifiers:
Non-rated events
French National Championship qualifying events
Year 1 very successful, year 2 less so

Year 1
Resurrected players
Players used new cards
Diversity e.g. players could use decks with a lot of as the crow flies

Year 2
Less impactful

This led to discussion around PB’s alternate format:

Proxies for all
Tournament rules would apply
Still get qualification for winner

Would not be used at nationals/championships/qualifiers

MK – mentioned he preferred PB’s original posting on the NC forum as he liked the additional rules e.g. hosting a normal event first before a proxy event.

[link to be added ]
RFl – Concerned this would kill the game
PD – Have allowed all proxies cards including new cards using “1 original” copy required in decks
RFa – asked if it would/has made players acquire cards
BP – asked if making players come back to game
RG – mentioned that if proxies were not allowed at major events this means they would most likely not be allowed at German events due to the remaining nature of these [3 a year, Nationals, Qualifier..]

Further discussion postponed as this topic would be expanded upon later with a non-binding vote.

5. BP – talked about the remaining prize support
2 years left of various items though some items are sold out
Infrastructure issues with the PC the webstore is hosted upon, meaning Walch and Nusser to discontinue
Promos mixed e.g. no Ensemble, but plenty of cards around
UPDATE by Johannes Walch: Since I was not present I give you the latest update regarding Walch & Nusser. We are keeping the web site open until November when we will do a final sale which is going to be shipped en-bloc beginning of December. We will give out lots of promos with the orders to get them into the field. Afterwards we will permanently close our website.

I am willing to pay for shipment of the remaining product/promos to a person who is volunteering to take care of it. No product obtained this way can be sold for profit, as it will be marked as a donation. Cost for shipping can be charged of course.

VR – asked if any concerns over www.vekn.net, this was confirmed as not being impacted

6. A question was raised around images and themes of promotional material.

7. BP – confirmed that we still have dispensation to use the Tri-snake symbol and that he believed this sat in an agreement Robert Goudie has.

RFa – asked what sponsorship rules were e.g. around an unnamed drinks company sponsoring the Genoa event.

A discussion ensued and it was agreed that the key item of a third party company hosting pictures/advertising the event on their website with all the accompanying CCP/Wotc rights could not be approved by us and any third party would need to approach the owners of the applicable rights.

8. Grand Prix Events
The group were overall encouraged by the Hungarian Grand Prix and there was discussion over repeating the event.
PB – great large new events, possibility to dilute other events
PD/BP – think we can have more to get more players doing stuff
PT – we weren’t sure how it was going to go/repeatability

After some discussion it was agreed GQ/BP would work on a short submission document to help encourage these events but also limit numbers [so they don’t replace nationals/qualifiers]


9. Crowdfunding of Artists

BP talked about options for raising funds to help pay for artists doing VEKN set artwork.
An element of future compensation is included in some of the agreements for use of the artwork e.g. Christopher Shy

HA asked if this was legal given VEKN is not an entity in any legal sense [not a company, charity or other body recognised under law] so cannot make contracts.
If we were to do this we would need to create an entity to hold a bank account etc rather than an individual holding these funds.

10. T-shirts for 2016

PB - asked if these t-shirts can be available earlier
Can we order this year/pay in advance etc

Thinking:
Design, survey, sell.

HA - A way to sell/provide these would need to be arranged if Walch and Nusser is going away

PB - said any numbers for ordering would be needed around October

11. New Players – how do we get them

PB – recommend Ke Carlton’s playsheet and asked if a vectorised version was available
HA – said he thought it was likely as Ke was quite skilled and he would follow up with him. He also commented on seeing it used by Christian Nislev in Copenhagen the week before to introduce 3 new players.

VR – talked about simpler version of game with straight forward beads.
VR – would also like the ability to print an easier version to make things easier to train new players
RFa – talked about giving away a lot of these simple cards to get things going/encouraging players

VR – would like to turn Ke’s playmat or other material into a Flash or other summary of the game.

TB and PB talked about fully proxy desks, and PB talked about the French project started by Orian Gissler to have ~100 or so decks built this way with proxies for anyone to use.

12. VEKN Cards

HA asked whether different playgroups they were using the new cards in their play.

A number of representatives including AD and RU confirmed that their groups were using the new cards and a number of cards were being used through the EC weekend.

A key limiting factor has been noted in the production of cards, some groups are using professionally printed version of cards [against VEKN policy] but this was encouraging the use of these cards.

Lotus Noir was mentioned as a website third party that currently allows a user to easily select a deck etc to print to pdf then to versions to be cut out as proxies. VR agreed that something like this supporting the new VEKN cards [as well as a tool demonstrating the game] would be beneficial.

RG commented that other tools like Secret Library are missing some cards and could also do with a makeover to make them easier/prettier to use.

13. Future of VTES

BP gave a summary of the current prospects of getting VTES back into print.

Part 1:
- talks with CCP regarding the WOD license are on hiatus.
- CCP did however, indicate that they are not interested in licensing a VTES-compatible game that cuts out Wizards.
- still no word from Wizards.
- Design Team developed a boxed set of Sabbat-themed pre-con starters for OneBookshelf, with the idea that it would be the primary Kickstarter product in a 2015 release. If no movement by Wizards or CCP by the end of the year, the VEKN will release the new cards from that set as a Sabbat mini set.

Part 2:
Proxies – should these be allowed whilst there is no reprint on the horizon?
Discussion ensued with the majority of the room participating at various stages and a vote was held to help the inner circle with policy decisions.

TB what would be the best way to do this if were to change so as to avoid a large external noise?
PB rulebook could be changed to allow/not allow proxies and if cards were printed changed again

AD asked if ore cards were going to exist and was assured Anarchs is in development now
AD also asked about using the VEKN sets on real current cards [as seen at EC 2015]
PT, PD and MK all stated that cards like these were being used in their groups.
RR was concerned about the ability to cheat with these cards [feel very different on examples provided by PD and shown to PB and GQ]

This then brought a long discussion around new VEKN cards being used on “real” card stock [double side, card printed professionally] at the EC 2015.

RG noted we should either tell/or not tell players that what they are doing is wrong but we should announce it and talk about and make clear what is happening.

GQ stated we should enforce the rules and make public the decision.

Some practicalities were noted:
1. No enforcement was taken on the Friday of gaming
2. There is limited access to print these cards on A4 paper for all players who are using incorrect cards
3. It may not be possible to inform all players before the event

HA reminded the group that it is up the tournament organisers to choose how to enforce rules and proxy rules do exist within the rules.

A vote was held to decide if the VEKN proxy rules should be enforced at the rest of the EC2015 following LCQ lapses.

Yes: 4 votes
No: 6 votes
Abstain: 7 votes

It was therefore agreed by the Polish organising and judging team to not enforce VEKN proxy rules at the remainder of the weekend.

After further discussion another vote was held to decide if proxies of all cards could be allowed at future events.

8 yes votes
8 no votes
1 abstain

GQ agreed to discuss this further with the inner circle with the potential of a survey being designed to incorporate further views/information.

14. Post meeting – a reminder that VEKN chairman and vice chairman should stand for election every three years.
Genoa 2016 will therefore host the next election.
GQ to work with RFa to allow time in Genoa 2016 schedule and publicise in good time prior to the event.


CLOSE 1:16

Thank you very much for posting this - it includes a lot of excellent information, and I'm glad that it's available now. I know how much work goes into making a summary like this, but the work is much appreciated!

Squidalot wrote:

- Design Team developed a boxed set of Sabbat-themed pre-con starters for OneBookshelf, with the idea that it would be the primary Kickstarter product in a 2015 release. If no movement by Wizards or CCP by the end of the year, the VEKN will release the new cards from that set as a Sabbat mini set.

Hello guys,

would there be any news on this potential Sabbat mini set?

Best regards,

Hardy

hardyrange wrote:

Squidalot wrote:

- Design Team developed a boxed set of Sabbat-themed pre-con starters for OneBookshelf, with the idea that it would be the primary Kickstarter product in a 2015 release. If no movement by Wizards or CCP by the end of the year, the VEKN will release the new cards from that set as a Sabbat mini set.

Hello guys,

would there be any news on this potential Sabbat mini set?

No news on that as yet, as we're trying to get the Bloodlines set ready for playtesting. We'd like to get those Sabbat cards into the hands of the players, though, so it's likely the next in the pipeline.

It's just 12 crypt cards and 2 library cards - stuff to round out some crypt options in Group 5 and to make the (proposed) starter decks a little more than just reprints. We could release them as-is (they need artwork, though) or we could design some more cards to make it more of a real set.