file Anthology set previews: April 10

10 Apr 2017 14:15 - 10 Apr 2017 14:23 #81411 by TwoRazorReign
A few queries about Field Training. To those reading this post, please note that I have my copy editor hat on with this post and am in no way meaning to criticize the fantastic work done with these new cards.

Field training states:

"Unlock this vampire, choose a Discipline they have at superior and put this card on another ready non-titled vampire you control. The attached vampire is considered anarch (and Independent), and gets +1 level of the chosen Discipline. If the attached vampire changes sect, burn this card. A vampire can have only one Field Training."

First, having "this vampire" and then referring to the subject with the singular they is idiomatically speaking something a native English speaker will find awkward. In all cases, the native speaker would use "it" when referring to something other than a specific human being (wherein they would use the gender-specific he or she because that information is known). For example, "Unlock this dog, choose a discipline it has...". A native English speaker would never use singular they when referring to a specific dog, and they wouldn't use it when referring to a specific vampire either. Is there a reason not to use "it" in this situation?

Second, the text says "put this card on," and then it later states "the attached vampire." Why not say "Attach this card to"? Is there a reason to retain "put this card on"? Putting something on something else and attaching something to something else are not the same thing. Therefore it's a bit of a leap in logic to say "put this card on" in one sentence and in the next sentence to say "The attached vampire." Now, the new text in the rulebook does explain things nicely, making this is a relatively minor detail. But, using "attach this card to" perhaps would allow one to understand the concept of “attach” better just from a cold read of the card text alone.

Last, some questions about punctuation: is there a reason not to use the serial comma after "superior" in the first sentence? And in the second sentence, is there a reason for the comma after "(and Independent)"? There should not be a comma there because it's all the same clause.
Last edit: 10 Apr 2017 14:23 by TwoRazorReign.

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10 Apr 2017 14:38 - 10 Apr 2017 15:00 #81412 by Ankha

First, having "this vampire" and then referring to the subject with the singular they is idiomatically speaking something a native English speaker will find awkward.

It's typically in that situation that the singular they is used:

"The patient should be told at the outset how much they will be required to pay." (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they)

In all cases, the native speaker would use "it" when referring to something other than a specific human being (wherein they would use the gender-specific he or she because that information is known). For example, "Unlock this dog, choose a discipline it has...". A native English speaker would never use singular they when referring to a specific dog, and they wouldn't use it when referring to a specific vampire either. Is there a reason not to use "it" in this situation?

Vampires are here treated like human beings.

Second, the text says "put this card on," and then it later states "the attached vampire." Why not say "Attach this card to"? ... But, using "attach this card to" perhaps would allow one to understand the concept of “attach” better just from a cold read of the card text alone.

That was an option. But if you attach the card to the vampire, then it's the card that is attached, not the vampire and "the attached vampire" doesn't match logically. Either way, this slight contradiction is solved by the rulebook: "If a card is put on another, both are considered attached to each other.", so it was easier to keep it that way.

Last, some questions about punctuation: is there a reason not to use the serial comma after "superior" in the first sentence? And in the second sentence, is there a reason for the comma after "(and Independent)"? There should not be a comma there because it's all the same clause.

There's no strict rule, as long as there's no ambiguity (even if we tend not to use the serial comma)

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 10 Apr 2017 15:00 by Ankha.

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10 Apr 2017 14:50 #81413 by ReverendRevolver
So.....


We're ditching the things Hasbro owns...


Cards are being printed....

We are for all intents and purposes in line to be back in print.

Why are complaints even coming to people's minds?
Change "tap" to "floop" and I'll notice in 3 mons because we appear to have returned to print. And that is what matters.

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10 Apr 2017 15:02 #81414 by Damnans
Official release: May 11, 2017

Legal for Tournament Play: May 11, 2017

Welcome to the second week of previews of the Anthology set! The previous week previews are still available by scrolling down.

PREVIEWS
Field TrainingWeirich WaldurgAndré the Manipulator
New wording


Attached
By default, a minion card in play is controlled by the controller of the minion it is on (sec. 1.6.3. Minion cards). This leads to two reading perspective for cards that are put on other minions:
1. first, when the action is announced and during its course, "this minion" refers to the acting minion
2. then, after the action has been resolved, "this minion" refers to the minion the card is on.
In order not to rely too heavily on the subtleties of the differences between "this acting minion", "that minion" that are confusing for new and old players alike, and to avoid cumbersome formulations such as "the minion with this card", a new keyword "attached" has been added.

Attached: if a card is put on another, both are considered attached to each other.

This keyword is similar to the existing "bearer" (for equipment) or "employer" (for retainers) keywords.

The reprint of Field Training uses this new wording: "Unlock this vampire, choose a Discipline they have at superior and put this card on another ready non-titled vampire you control. The attached vampire is considered anarch (and Independent), and gets +1 level of the chosen Discipline. If the attached vampire changes sect, burn this card. A vampire can have only one Field Training."

"Unlock this vampire" refers to the acting vampire, and "The attached vampire" refers to the vampire the Field Training is put on.

As a last reminder, don't forget that Field Training can be put on a vampire who already has the chosen Discipline at superior (contrary to Discipline cards that usually have a restriction)!

See you next week for more previews!

:vtes: V:EKN Website Coordinator

:baal: :AUS: :DAI: :FOR: :OBF: :PRE: :MAL: :STR: :flight: :cap11:

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10 Apr 2017 15:11 - 10 Apr 2017 15:17 #81415 by TwoRazorReign

First, having "this vampire" and then referring to the subject with the singular they is idiomatically speaking something a native English speaker will find awkward.

It's typically in that situation that the singular they is used:

"The patient should be told at the outset how much they will be required to pay." (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they)


Your example says "The patient." It is not referring to a specific patient (eg, This patient). The card says "This vampire." It is referring to a specific vampire. Using singular they in this context is awkward.

In all cases, the native speaker would use "it" when referring to something other than a specific human being (wherein they would use the gender-specific he or she because that information is known). For example, "Unlock this dog, choose a discipline it has...". A native English speaker would never use singular they when referring to a specific dog, and they wouldn't use it when referring to a specific vampire either. Is there a reason not to use "it" in this situation?

Vampires are here treated like human beings.


The point is the singular they is being used to refer to one specific vampire, who is either a he or she, and this is misusing the singular they. It's awkward for a native speaker to use the singular they to refer to something other than a gender nonspecific person, such as "the patient" or "the vampire." Thus, the only fix I see is to treat specific vampires as something not human like dogs, and refer to them as "it."

Second, the text says "put this card on," and then it later states "the attached vampire." Why not say "Attach this card to"? ... But, using "attach this card to" perhaps would allow one to understand the concept of “attach” better just from a cold read of the card text alone.

That was an option. But if you attach the card to the vampire, then it's the card that is attached, not the vampire and "the attached vampire" doesn't match logically.


How so? I don't understand how it doesn't match logically. It's clear you are attaching the card to the vampire, and you are not attaching the vampire to the card, but that they are attached to one another.

Either way, this slight contradiction that is solved by the rulebook: "If a card is put on another, both are considered attached to each other.", so it was easier to keep it that way.


Right. I said as much. It'd just be nice if a cold read of the card text explained everything one needed to know without having to look at the rulebook.

Last, some questions about punctuation: is there a reason not to use the serial comma after "superior" in the first sentence? And in the second sentence, is there a reason for the comma after "(and Independent)"? There should not be a comma there because it's all the same clause.

There's no strict rule, as long as there's no ambiguity.


There is ambiguity. Do you unlock the vampire, then choose a discipline and put the card on the vampire at the same time (no serial comma)? Or do you unlock the vampire, then choose the discipline, then put the card on the vampire (serial comma)? As for the other comma being misused after "(and Independent)," there probably should be a strict rule about misusing commas.
Last edit: 10 Apr 2017 15:17 by TwoRazorReign.

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10 Apr 2017 15:40 - 10 Apr 2017 15:42 #81416 by Ankha

Last, some questions about punctuation: is there a reason not to use the serial comma after "superior" in the first sentence? And in the second sentence, is there a reason for the comma after "(and Independent)"? There should not be a comma there because it's all the same clause.

There's no strict rule, as long as there's no ambiguity.


There is ambiguity. Do you unlock the vampire, then choose a discipline and put the card on the vampire at the same time (no serial comma)? Or do you unlock the vampire, then choose the discipline, then put the card on the vampire (serial comma)? As for the other comma being misused after "(and Independent)," there probably should be a strict rule about misusing commas.

The timing is not defined by the commas, but by the rules:
www.vekn.net/rulebook/6-minion-phase#6.2.1.announcetheaction

"All details of the action are declared when the action is announced, including the target(s), the cost, the effects, etc. Any card required for the action is played (face up) at this time. Lock the acting minion (only ready unlocked minions can take actions)."

There is no ambiguity here: you have to announce the details (the vampire this card is put on, the discipline you choose) then apply the effects one by one if the action is successful.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 10 Apr 2017 15:42 by Ankha.

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