file Form of Mist vs Blissful Agony / Morphean Blow

14 Dec 2011 07:40 #18345 by Malachy
Heys again, I try not be frequent here but another question occured...

Acting vampire plays Form of Mist, the blocking playes Morphean Blow or Blissful Agony... What happens?

Morphean Blow
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Valeren / Celerity
Only usable at close range.
[cel] Strike: combat ends.
[val] Strike: combat ends and put this card on the opposing minion. This minion cannot take actions or block. Burn this card at the end of the turn.
[VAL] As [val] above, and if this vampire was blocked while performing an action other than bleeding, the action continues as if unblocked.

Blissful Agony
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Valeren/Animalism
[ani] Strike: hand strike at +1 damage.
[val] Only usable at close range before strikes are chosen. Opposing minion takes 1 unpreventable damage during strike resolution each round this combat when the range is close. A vampire may play only one Blissful Agony at [val] each combat.
[VAL] Strike: combat ends. Choose a minion controlled by a Methuselah other than the opposing vampire's controller. The opposing vampire enters combat with that minion.

Form of Mist
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Protean
[pro] Strike: dodge.
[PRO] Strike: combat ends. If this vampire is acting [and needs stealth when this strike resolves], he or she may burn 1 blood after combat ends to continue the action at +1 stealth as if unblocked. A vampire may play only one Form of Mist at superior each action.


NC of Hungary

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14 Dec 2011 08:04 #18351 by jamesatzephyr
Vampire A (acting, blocked) plays Form of Mist.
Vampire B (non-acting) plays Morphean Blow [val].
Combat ends and Vampire A continues to take the action they were taking. Continuing an action that's already in progress doesn't have the same checks as starting an action anew.

[LSJ 20100221]

On Feb 21, 12:43 pm, botipeti <> wrote:

> Let's say vamp A blocks vamp B and in combat vamp B plays Torrent to
> continue the action and vamp A plays Morphean Blow inferior. Can vamp
> B continue the action or continueing is the same as taking an action
> which he cannot do because of Morphean Blow?

He can continue. Similarly, if he lost a single blood in combat and
was then empty, he could still continue the non-hunt action, eve
though empty vampires cannot take non-hunt actions.



On Form of Mist (or Torrent etc.) vs Blissful Agony, I'm reasonably certain that the Blissful Agony "enter combat" effect would end up disrupting the Form of Mist continue action. (Following the usual precedent of Psyche! et al.) However, I can't find a specific ruling that squarely addresses the two.
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14 Dec 2011 08:22 #18355 by Pascal Bertrand

Vampire A (acting, blocked) plays Form of Mist.
Vampire B (non-acting) plays Morphean Blow [val].
Combat ends and Vampire A continues to take the action they were taking. Continuing an action that's already in progress doesn't have the same checks as starting an action anew.

[LSJ 20100221]

On Feb 21, 12:43 pm, botipeti <> wrote:

> Let's say vamp A blocks vamp B and in combat vamp B plays Torrent to
> continue the action and vamp A plays Morphean Blow inferior. Can vamp
> B continue the action or continueing is the same as taking an action
> which he cannot do because of Morphean Blow?

He can continue. Similarly, if he lost a single blood in combat and
was then empty, he could still continue the non-hunt action, eve
though empty vampires cannot take non-hunt actions.



On Form of Mist (or Torrent etc.) vs Blissful Agony, I'm reasonably certain that the Blissful Agony "enter combat" effect would end up disrupting the Form of Mist continue action. (Following the usual precedent of Psyche! et al.) However, I can't find a specific ruling that squarely addresses the two.

Correct.
Regarding the last point, we have this:
All Rulings wrote:

Any effect that starts a new combat after the combat that was ended by (or continues the combat that was ended by) a "combat ends and the action continues as if unblocked" will nullify the "continue action" part. This includes Psyche (superior), Fast Reaction, Hidden Lurker, and Telepathic Tracking. [LSJ 19980109]

which lacks up-to-date examples, but it still correct.
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14 Dec 2011 08:24 - 14 Dec 2011 08:26 #18356 by Ankha

Heys again, I try not be frequent here but another question occured...

Acting vampire plays Form of Mist, the blocking playes Morphean Blow or Blissful Agony... What happens?


Morphean Blow: I suppose at [val]: the vampire cannot take actions anymore, but I don't think it affects the current action which has already been taken and is now being performed.

Blissful Agony: the new combat disrupts the action (such as Psyche!, Telepathic Tracking etc. would do). groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f878c5f356e883b8

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Last edit: 14 Dec 2011 08:26 by Ankha.
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18 Dec 2011 14:07 #18778 by Mael

Vampire A (acting, blocked) plays Form of Mist.
Vampire B (non-acting) plays Morphean Blow [val].
Combat ends and Vampire A continues to take the action they were taking. Continuing an action that's already in progress doesn't have the same checks as starting an action anew.

[LSJ 20100221]

On Feb 21, 12:43 pm, botipeti <> wrote:

> Let's say vamp A blocks vamp B and in combat vamp B plays Torrent to
> continue the action and vamp A plays Morphean Blow inferior. Can vamp
> B continue the action or continueing is the same as taking an action
> which he cannot do because of Morphean Blow?

He can continue. Similarly, if he lost a single blood in combat and
was then empty, he could still continue the non-hunt action, eve
though empty vampires cannot take non-hunt actions.

This brings up a question I hadn't considered before, if the acting minion plays superior Form of Mist and is simultaneously sent to torpor by the blocking vampires Catatonic Fear or Loving Agony, does the action continue?
I can't actually find anything in the rulebook that checks if the vampire is still ready at the end of the action, and this post by LSJ seems to suggest it would work, but it seems odd (and contrary to what I would expect).

> I can't think of how to interrupt anything with Diablerie
> at all. Amaranth can always be played if one's opponent is
> going to torpor but what could it interrupt?

Form of Mist's continuance ....

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18 Dec 2011 14:26 - 19 Dec 2011 15:45 #18780 by Pascal Bertrand

This brings up a question I hadn't considered before, if the acting minion plays superior Form of Mist and is simultaneously sent to torpor by the blocking vampires Catatonic Fear or Loving Agony, does the action continue?
I can't actually find anything in the rulebook that checks if the vampire is still ready at the end of the action, and this post by LSJ seems to suggest it would work, but it seems odd (and contrary to what I would expect).

> I can't think of how to interrupt anything with Diablerie
> at all. Amaranth can always be played if one's opponent is
> going to torpor but what could it interrupt?

Form of Mist's continuance ....


If the acting minion is no longer ready, the action can't continue.
[LSJ 19980511] / [TOM 19951001] wrote:

If the (ready) acting vampire goes to torpor, the action cannot continue


[LSJ 20090325] wrote:

The (ready-minion-requiring) action continually checks the acting minion's readiness. If that check ever fails, the action fizzles.


Form of Mist vs Amaranth is a special case. "Diablerie is too disruptive to have the action continue beyond that point": [LSJ 19980819] and [LSJ 20031207] . Note that the disruptive part is the blood hunt referendum. If you manage to burn the opposing minion during combat (Decapitate, ...), you can continue the action afterwards.
Last edit: 19 Dec 2011 15:45 by Pascal Bertrand.
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