"Cannot be moved" and Carver's Meat Packing and Storage

AaronC wrote:

Let's think about what Scorpion Sting says:

Scorpion Sting
Combat
Animalism
Strike: hand strike at +1 damage.
As above, and this strike cannot be dodged.

The superior version literally says that the strike cannot be dodged. I infer that that means that a dodge cannot be declared as a strike. However, the rules director has ruled that an opposing minion can declare a dodge as a strike, even though the card text says it isn't possible. It's a ruling.

There is an inconsistency there.

In that case there is no completely satisfactory solution. Since the strike declaration is sequential, if it was ruled the way you propose then the card would work differently if played by the acting (play first -> the opponent cannot play a Dodge) or reacting minion (play second -> the opponent's Dodge fizzles), which would be a major inconsistency too.

That is a reason, but not a good one. For Carver and the like, it is not the card text itself that forbids to attempt the action but the rule that states an action cannot be taken if its effect is forbidden. Even if Scorpion Sting has not resolved yet, it has already been declared and is scheduled to resolve in time to take effect the opponent's strike, so when the reacting minion plays his dodge, the game is already in a state where that dodge will be forbidden to work. The game state also includes future effects to be applied.

jhattara wrote:

AaronC wrote:

Let's think about what Scorpion Sting says:

Scorpion Sting
Combat
Animalism
Strike: hand strike at +1 damage.
As above, and this strike cannot be dodged.

The superior version literally says that the strike cannot be dodged. I infer that that means that a dodge cannot be declared as a strike. However, the rules director has ruled that an opposing minion can declare a dodge as a strike, even though the card text says it isn't possible. It's a ruling.

There is an inconsistency there.

There is a good reason why you can play dodge against Scorpion Sting: strikes do not resolve in any way until strike resolution (unless otherwise stated on the card). For everything that matters for playing that dodge against Scorpion Sting its card text could as well be blank until the strike resolves.

Does that mean you can not play Groundfighting to cancel Scorpion Sting?

Groundfighting

Requires a ready anarch. Do not replace until after combat. Maneuver or press or burn 1 blood to cancel a combat card played by the opposing minion that would restrict this anarch`s choice of strikes this round as it is played.

Wedge wrote:

Does that mean you can not play Groundfighting to cancel Scorpion Sting?

No, you can't since it has been ruled that Scorpion Sting doesn't prevent you from declaring dodge as a strike (even though it certainly seems to say that). Apparently there is a difference between "dodging" and "declaring a dodge as a strike".

Non-existant user wrote:

For Carver and the like, it is not the card text itself that forbids to attempt the action but the rule that states an action cannot be taken if its effect is forbidden.

There is no such rule, neither in the rulebook nor the rules reference. It is a guideline, I guess, that LSJ has used in many of his rulings. I think that such a rule could be added for clarity.

Of course, it's not just minion actions that we're talking about. There are several things that could move a hostage to the controlled region, in the case of CMP&S. Also strikes, master phase actions, terms of a referendum, minion special abilities, are all things that might not be able to be attempted because their end result is illegal.

I agree with AaronC that game rules in a current state do not say that you cannot take action that would have no effect.
Since it has been ruled that you can attempt a bleed with a minion that has a bleed of 0, which would resolve unsuccessfully if you cannot change it during action itself, I do not see why Graverobbing is not usable on a minion with hostage counter. Or using Gabrielle's text steal on an empty minion...