"As Played" Window Ruling Contradictions?
Look at your hand. Can you cancel the card play using the cards in your hand? Yes, then say so. No, then there's no decision to be made. Pretty simple, and facilitated by banning all replacements in the 'as played' window.
Huh?
I don't see how this correlates with the "as played window".
You don't replace cards in the 'as played' window. Therefore, you know whether you can cancel a card by looking at your hand. You don't have a "If I play this Forced and replace it, will I get... therefore...." indecision points.
1.6.1.1 tells you that replacing cards comes after the 'as played' window. The 2004 ruling explicitly states you can only use cards that are in your hand at the moment the card was played (banning Barrens et al).
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jamesatzephyr
- Offline
- Antediluvian
- Posts: 2788
- Thank you received: 958
Look at your hand. Can you cancel the card play using the cards in your hand? Yes, then say so. No, then there's no decision to be made. Pretty simple, and facilitated by banning all replacements in the 'as played' window.
Huh?
I don't see how this correlates with the "as played window".
You don't replace cards in the 'as played' window. Therefore, you know whether you can cancel a card by looking at your hand. You don't have a "If I play this Forced and replace it, will I get... therefore...." indecision points.
1.6.1.1 tells you that replacing cards comes after the 'as played' window. The 2004 ruling explicitly states you can only use cards that are in your hand at the moment the card was played (banning Barrens et al).
So, for me the question remains why you are not allowed to replace cards in the "as played" window.
Wouldn't it be more intuitive to have cards replaced normally, and cancellation cards may be played by other players if they have it in their hand. No other effects or play of cards would be allowed.
Would that be workable?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Amenophobis
- Offline
- Antediluvian
- Posts: 1776
- Thank you received: 119
So, for me the question remains why you are not allowed to replace cards in the "as played" window.
That's what the rules say.
Wouldn't it be more intuitive to have cards replaced normally, and cancellation cards may be played by other players if they have it in their hand. No other effects or play of cards would be allowed.
If V:TES history indicates anything, it is that everyone's intuition is different.
On this specific issue, the play of Wakes was intuitive for some. For some, the play of a Wake on Rewind Time during the master phase is intuitive too. (This latter one appeared to come about because players had intuited that wakes were magic cards that let them play reactions, rather than reading card text and the rules.)
Would that be workable?
Any arbitrary set of rules could be workable. When people apparently aren't reading the rules that are there, and are instead relying on their tingling spidey-senses to let them intuit what the rules are, it doesn't really matter - all the people who currently aren't reading the rules will continue to not read the rules.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jamesatzephyr
- Offline
- Antediluvian
- Posts: 2788
- Thank you received: 958
It also chimes reasonably well with LSJ's efforts to avoid Magic-like stacks forming
This is just untrue on some extent
As the rule allows actually more magic stacks in the very moment the playing of wakes+canceler is allowed (as it is):
No, the fact that card cancellation exists at all introduces it. LSJ attempted to limit its creep by, for example, banning the use of The Barrens et al in this window, and preventing replaces until the "as played" window closes is a related element.
Can't do anything more other that putting a clear example about how the actual rule add more "magic stacks" (allowing "wake" reaction cards to be played in the "as announced/played windows")
It's just fact: the more cards you allow to be played in given window the more stacks you add to it
Erasing "wakes" like reaction cards from the "as played" window would lessen stacks on it, allowing as it were done was just a call for complications and indeed this discussion is just another case
Emiliano
vekn.net administrators staff
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- er-principe
- Offline
- Inconnu
- Posts: 659
- Thank you received: 134
No, this discussion rose because someone didn't read the rulebook part that was quoted by Pascal.Erasing "wakes" like reaction cards from the "as played" window would lessen stacks on it, allowing as it were done was just a call for complications and indeed this discussion is just another case
No. There's only one "stack": the one induced by the "as announced/played window" effects. You can fit any number of cards in it, it won't create more stacks.Can't do anything more other that putting a clear example about how the actual rule add more "magic stacks" (allowing "wake" reaction cards to be played in the "as announced/played windows")
It's just fact: the more cards you allow to be played in given window the more stacks you add to it
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
No, this discussion rose because someone didn't read the rulebook part that was quoted by Pascal.Erasing "wakes" like reaction cards from the "as played" window would lessen stacks on it, allowing as it were done was just a call for complications and indeed this discussion is just another case
No. There's only one "stack": the one induced by the "as announced/played window" effects. You can fit any number of cards in it, it won't create more stacks.Can't do anything more other that putting a clear example about how the actual rule add more "magic stacks" (allowing "wake" reaction cards to be played in the "as announced/played windows")
It's just fact: the more cards you allow to be played in given window the more stacks you add to it
Ok, then let's go on ignoring evidence and let's keep on the game with an huge amount of convoluted rulings
Emiliano
vekn.net administrators staff
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- er-principe
- Offline
- Inconnu
- Posts: 659
- Thank you received: 134
- You are here:
- Home
- Forum
- V:TES Discussion
- Rules Questions
- "As Played" Window Ruling Contradictions?