Anarch-ing Parmenides

When you influence out Parmenides, is there an opportunity to make him Anarch using, for example, Anarch Convert or Twilight Camp, before he slides over to your predator?

Or might one be better off just using Seattle Committee after he comes back to your control?

Thanks!


Parmenides
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Assamite
Group: 2
Capacity: 4
Discipline: qui CEL
Independent: When you move Parmenides from your uncontrolled region to your ready region, your predator takes control of Parmenides until your next untap phase. +1 strength. Blood cursed.


Anarch Convert
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Caitiff
Group: ANY
Capacity: 1
Discipline: -none-
Independent. Anarch: When the convert enters play, you may remove him from the game to make a non-titled vampire you control anarch and either gain 1 pool or draw a card from your crypt.


Twilight Camp
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put this card in play with 4 counters. When you put a non-titled, non-anarch vampire in play from your uncontrolled region, you may burn a counter from this card to make that vampire anarch (and independent). You may burn a counter from this card to add a blood to an anarch as a master phase action. Burn this card when it has no counters.

js_vtes wrote:

When you influence out Parmenides, is there an opportunity to make him Anarch using, for example, Anarch Convert or Twilight Camp, before he slides over to your predator?

Twilight Camp: Yes. He's moved in play from your uncontrolled area during your influence phase.

Anarch Convert: No. When Parmenides is influenced out, your predator takes control of him. Then, other vampires might move to your ready region during that influence phase, but you won't be controlling Parmenides anymore.

js_vtes wrote:

Or might one be better off just using Seattle Committee after he comes back to your control?

Seattle Committe is only usable if Parmenides didn't become an anarch, which is something that might occur during your predator's turn

What happens if you "Chain of Command" Parmenides?

Chain of Command
+1 stealth action.
[dom] Put X younger vampires from your uncontrolled region in play with 1 blood from the blood bank each (in addition to any blood they already have). You cannot choose any unique vampires already in play. Those vampires must bleed. When one of them bleeds successfully, or when all that can bleed have, move them all to the bottom of your crypt.
[DOM] As above, but move X+1 younger vampires.

Card text suggests that he would bleed you.

wesile wrote:

What happens if you "Chain of Command" Parmenides?

Chain of Command
+1 stealth action.
[dom] Put X younger vampires from your uncontrolled region in play with 1 blood from the blood bank each (in addition to any blood they already have). You cannot choose any unique vampires already in play. Those vampires must bleed. When one of them bleeds successfully, or when all that can bleed have, move them all to the bottom of your crypt.
[DOM] As above, but move X+1 younger vampires.

Parmenides goes to your predator, if he can bleed (you do chain of command during your predator's turn with enkil cog or with a malkavian under malkavian madness network) he bleeds, if he can't (the normal case scenario) tha part of Chain of command cardtext "When one of them bleeds successfully, or when all that can bleed have, move them all to the bottom of your crypt" applies and Parmenides is shuffled back in your crypt.

wesile wrote:

What happens if you "Chain of Command" Parmenides?

Let's look at it in slow-mo, in two different cases:

* Case 1: Parmenides is the only guy in your Chain. He moves to your predator. Can he bleed? 99% of the time, the answer will be "no" (other cases are: someone turned him Malkavian and there's the Madness Network in play, or you are playing Malkavians and acting during your predator's turn - in these cases, he must bleed). So, since he can't bleed, CoC returns him under your crypt.

* Case 2: Parmenides is brought with other chaps. He moves to your predator. I'll suppose he can't bleed. Those who can bleed (the other CoC'd fellows) must bleed. When one successfully bleeds, or when all that can bleed (this doesn't include Parmenides) have, move all (this includes Parmenides) to your crypt.

@acbishop: No shuffling with Chain of Command

Pascal wrote:

js_vtes wrote:

When you influence out Parmenides, is there an opportunity to make him Anarch using, for example, Anarch Convert or Twilight Camp, before he slides over to your predator?

Twilight Camp: Yes. He's moved in play from your uncontrolled area during your influence phase.

Cool. To confirm, Twilight Camp would also work thusly if Parm is brought into play during the minion phase by Undue Influence at [qui], correct?

Undue Influence
[KMW:C]
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Chimerstry/Presence/Quietus
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready anarch. Choose a vampire in your uncontrolled region.
[chi] Move 1 blood from an uncontrolled minion in any uncontrolled region to the chosen vampire.

  Bleed. If the bleed is successful, put 1 blood counter on the chosen vampire.

[qui] Put 1 blood counter on the chosen vampire. If the number of counters equals or exceeds his or her capacity, move that vampire to your ready region.



	

		 Pascal wrote: 
		
Anarch Convert: No. When Parmenides is influenced out, your predator takes control of him. Then, other vampires might move to your ready region during that influence phase, but you won't be controlling Parmenides anymore.




Ah, OK. I thought I'd seen something somewhere that said everybody's technically influenced up at the same time, but the one-at-a-time sequencing makes more sense to my simple brain.



	

		 Pascal wrote: 
		


	

		 js_vtes wrote: 
		
Or might one be better off just using Seattle Committee after he comes back to your control?


Seattle Committe is only usable if Parmenides didn't become an anarch, which is something that might occur during your predator's turn 




Indeed. Though it would be a pretty benign predator that would choose to enable their prey's strategy rather than just bleeding or trying to get Parm killed somehow.

js_vtes wrote:

To confirm, Twilight Camp would also work thusly if Parm is brought into play during the minion phase by Undue Influence at [qui], correct?

Indeed correct.

js_vtes wrote:

Ah, OK. I thought I'd seen something somewhere that said everybody's technically influenced up at the same time, but the one-at-a-time sequencing makes more sense to my simple brain.

It's also simpler to remember that you can't bypass the scarce rule by influencing out two scarce vampires in the same influence phase, hoping there would be no scarce penalty to pay.

Pascal wrote:

wesile wrote:

What happens if you "Chain of Command" Parmenides? Let's look at it in slow-mo, in two different cases:

* Case 1: Parmenides is the only guy in your Chain. He moves to your predator. Can he bleed? 99% of the time, the answer will be "no" (other cases are: someone turned him Malkavian and there's the Madness Network in play, or you are playing Malkavians and acting during your predator's turn - in these cases, he must bleed). So, since he can't bleed, CoC returns him under your crypt.

Thought so... but I was troubled by the change of controller. So you have a vampire that is out of your control but its still under influence of a card that you have played.

Does the other player have the windows to use heidelberg or similar effects?

wesile wrote:

wesile wrote:

What happens if you "Chain of Command" Parmenides {alone}?

Does the other player have the windows to use heidelberg or similar effects?

Hmm, triggered vs impulse. Good question. I would tend to say No, but I need to check that one.