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file Fakir al-Sidi vs. Cryptic Rider

06 Jan 2013 20:53 #43688 by Suoli
Fakir al-Sidi vs. Cryptic Rider was created by Suoli
1. Can Fakir al-Sidi's special be used on a referendum that would pass automatically?

The only ruling I found on this said that "most during referendum-effects aren't playable" but that's not very comprehensive.

2. Does Fakir's timing window refer to a discrete "before votes are cast" step, similar to the "before range" step? I.e., can you use his special any time during the action before votes are cast or right before votes are cast?

Thanks in advance.

Fakir al Sidi
Clan: Gangrel (group 4)
Capacity: 11
Disciplines: ANI FOR PRE PRO THA abo
Independent: Before votes are cast, Fakir may burn 3 blood to cause the referendum of a political action to fail. He gets an optional press each combat. +1 bleed. +1 strength.

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06 Jan 2013 21:27 #43689 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Fakir al-Sidi vs. Cryptic Rider
If the vote passes automatically, there's no voting phase, and effects usable "before votes are cast" or "during a referendum" can't be used.

Effects usable "on a successful referendum" (such as another Cryptic Rider or a Voter Captivation for a gain of 0 blood) can be used.
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07 Jan 2013 03:43 #43696 by KevinM
Replied by KevinM on topic Re: Fakir al-Sidi vs. Cryptic Rider
Fakir's should properly read During a referendum, before votes are cast,....
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07 Jan 2013 06:37 - 07 Jan 2013 06:40 #43698 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Fakir al-Sidi vs. Cryptic Rider

Fakir's should properly read During a referendum, before votes are cast,....

It's redundant because his cardtext already mentions "... the referendum of a political action".

Furthermore, votes are cast only during a referendum, and "before votes are cast" only apply if the action was successful => a referendum is being conducted.

You can't use "before votes are cast" effects before the referendum if you don't even know for instance whether the action will be blocked or not.
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Last edit: 07 Jan 2013 06:40 by Ankha.

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07 Jan 2013 07:58 #43706 by Pascal Bertrand
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: Fakir al-Sidi vs. Cryptic Rider

1. Can Fakir al-Sidi's special be used on a referendum that would pass automatically?

The only ruling I found on this said that "most during referendum-effects aren't playable" but that's not very comprehensive.

2. Does Fakir's timing window refer to a discrete "before votes are cast" step, similar to the "before range" step? I.e., can you use his special any time during the action before votes are cast or right before votes are cast?

Thanks in advance.

Fakir al Sidi
Clan: Gangrel (group 4)
Capacity: 11
Disciplines: ANI FOR PRE PRO THA abo
Independent: Before votes are cast, Fakir may burn 3 blood to cause the referendum of a political action to fail. He gets an optional press each combat. +1 bleed. +1 strength.


Might I recommend to quote cardtexts from the vekn page ?

1 - no. "All 'before votes and ballots are cast' effects can't be used in an automatically-passing referendum" would be clearer.
2 - Only once the referendum has started, which doesn't happen on blocked political actions.

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