Repeat Diablerie action?

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Pascal wrote:

Are only restricted to one per minion per turn:
- bleed (can't Kindred Spirits, Freak Drive, Intimidations)
- political action (can't call Kine Resources Contested, Freak Drive, Consanguineous Boon)
- each action from a card in play (can't enter in combat with Haven Uncovered(*), Freak Drive, enter combat with Haven Uncovered)
- card from hand (can't inf' Govern the Unaligned, Freak Drive, sup' Govern the Unaligned)

Red List rush of a marked vampire. [11.]

That would be an action granted by the "Red List" card text, thereby "each action from a card in play", as Pascal stated.

KevinM wrote:

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Pascal wrote:

Are only restricted to one per minion per turn:[...]

Red List rush of a marked vampire. [11.]

That would be an action granted by the "Red List" card text, thereby "each action from a card in play", as Pascal stated.

Not really. "Red List" is a piece of cardtext that does nothing, except what the Rulebook reads about how to interact with them. Similarly, a "vampire in torpor" is not providing a diablerie action that is limited to once per turn per minion (or a Rescue).
Also, if you spend 2 MPAs marking Enkidu and Ossian, you still can enter in combat via a Red List Rush action with only one of them with Smudge this turn.

Burning incapacited Imbueds is also not restricted. And often recommended

KevinM wrote:

That would be an action granted by the "Red List" card text, thereby "each action from a card in play", as Pascal stated.

This is a particularly unhelpful line of reasoning, because it leads to confusions like the one present in the initial question. Such as: I can only take a diablerie action because there's a vampire in torpor providing that action, therefore it's an action provided by a card in play, therefore I can't repeat the action. (Which is wrong, but a not-unheard-of line of thought.)

Pascal wrote:

- each action from a card in play (can't enter in combat with Haven Uncovered(*), Freak Drive, enter combat with Haven Uncovered)
- card from hand (can't inf' Govern the Unaligned, Freak Drive, sup' Govern the Unaligned)


(*): If there are two Haven Uncovered, you can enter combat with Haven Uncovered 1, Freak Drive, enter combat with Haven Uncovered 2.

There has to be clearer way to write that. The rulebook is even worse:

Section wrote:

A minion cannot perform an action with the same action card more than once each turn, even if he untaps. A minion cannot perform each action via the same card in play (including from the minion's own card text) more than once each turn, even if he untaps.

That "the same card" is used twice with two different meanings is confusing.

How about:

A minion cannot perform an action with the same an action card with the same name more than once each turn, even if he untaps. A minion cannot perform each action via the same card in play (including from the minion's own card text) more than once each turn, even if he untaps.

or

A minion cannot perform an action with two copies of the same action card more than once each turn, even if he untaps. A minion cannot perform each action via the same card in play (including from the minion's own card text) more than once each turn, even if he untaps.

Adding Pascal's examples to the rulebook might also help.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Such as: I can only take a diablerie action because there's a vampire in torpor providing that action, therefore it's an action provided by a card in play, therefore I can't repeat the action. (Which is wrong, but a not-unheard-of line of thought.)

I thought this was correct once upon a time. Here is how I understand it now:

Card in play actions require actual card text that defines the action. Just because a vampire is in torpor and is in play, doesn't mean it is treated like a card in play.

For example, suppose some Vampire had this drawback: "When in torpor, Vampire may be burned as a action; this is not considered diablerie." In this case, the attempt to burn Vampire would be considered a "card in play" action.

The diablerie action is defined in the rules. It is also not specifically restricted in the rules. Therefore, munch away!

Jeff wrote:

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Such as: I can only take a diablerie action because there's a vampire in torpor providing that action, therefore it's an action provided by a card in play, therefore I can't repeat the action. (Which is wrong, but a not-unheard-of line of thought.)

I thought this was correct once upon a time.

The previous NRA floor rule (defined by the tournament rules) prevented repeat diablerie of any sort, because you could only take each of the defined actions once - bleed and political action (as now), but also recruit ally, employ retainer, equip etc.

Not only could you not attempt to diablerize Igo the Hungry, get blocked, untap, and attempt to diablerize him again, but you also couldn't diablerize Igo the Hungry (successfully or not), untap, and diablerize Arika. Similarly, you couldn't equip twice, whether two cards from hand, or one card from hand and taking a Leather Jacket from Selma. Nor could you take a Leather Jacket from Selma, get blocked, and then attempt to take it again because repeat equips were just blanket blocked. If, today, you regarded taking the Leather Jacket as being an action provided by a card in play (it isn't), you wouldn't be able to attempt to take it, get blocked, untap, and take it again. (This is legal.)

Jeff wrote:

For example, suppose some Vampire had this drawback: "When in torpor, Vampire may be burned as a action; this is not considered diablerie." In this case, the attempt to burn Vampire would be considered a "card in play" action.

The diablerie action is defined in the rules. It is also not specifically restricted in the rules. Therefore, munch away!

Actions defined in the rules, which require a particular resource (e.g. a vampire, an Imbued) to be in a particular state (e.g. in torpor, incapacitated), are repeatable, except the exceptions listed in this thread.

Actions defined by a card in play aren't repeatable, unless you have a second copy of the card in play. (Like rushing with two different Haven Uncovereds, or burning the two different Haven Uncovereds.)