file Untapping before cancelling?

26 Jul 2013 05:33 - 26 Jul 2013 05:33 #52278 by Lemminkäinen
Victor Pelletier, Prince of Paris, plays a Parity Shift.

Can one play Angel of Berlin onto Jennie Cassie247 Orne and then have her play Determine to cancel the Parity Shift? Howabout playing On the Qui Vive and then Determine?

Essentially, does the window on "play as your predator or prey plays" allow for untaps and does it allow for wakes?


Determine
Reaction
Vision
[1 Conviction]

Play when a monster controlled by your predator is bleeding you, after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting imbued. The monster is now bleeding your predator's predator.
Or play when a monster controlled by your predator or prey plays an action card. Tap this reacting imbued and cancel that action card as it is played (no cost is paid, and the monster doesn't tap). That monster cannot play the same action card again this turn.

Angel of Berlin
Master

Master: out-of-turn. Requires a ready imbued.
Untap an imbued, or equip a ready imbued you control with an equipment from your hand (requirements must be met; pay cost as normal). Not usable during combat.

On the Qui Vive
Reaction

Only usable by a tapped minion. This reacting minion can play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the current action is concluded. If this minion is an ally, he or she does not untap as normal during his or her next untap phase. A minion may play only one On the Qui Vive between his or her untap phases.
Last edit: 26 Jul 2013 05:33 by Lemminkäinen.

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26 Jul 2013 05:58 - 26 Jul 2013 05:59 #52280 by Ankha

Can one play Angel of Berlin onto Jennie Cassie247 Orne and then have her play Determine to cancel the Parity Shift?

No.

Howabout playing On the Qui Vive and then Determine?

Yes

Essentially, does the window on "play as your predator or prey plays" allow for untaps

No

and does it allow for wakes?

Yes.

Source:
vekn.net/general-rulings
"As played" (a phrase used by many card-canceling effects) comes after the card in question is fully announced and before the effect the play generates. In general, no card or effect can be used in this window. The only ones that can be arethe effects that say so, and Wake-style effects that enable such cards to be played ("may play reaction cards" effects, not "untap self" or other effects). [RTR]

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 26 Jul 2013 05:59 by Ankha.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Malachy, Lemminkäinen

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26 Jul 2013 09:30 #52289 by jamesatzephyr
Also, the rulebook. 1.6.1.1-and-a-half:
Some effects can cancel a card "as it is played." These effects (and effects that grant the ability to play them, like Forced Awakening) are the only effects allowed during the "as played" time period of another card. Even drawing to replace cards comes after this time period.


Actual untaps aren't in the "effects that grant the ability to play them". Just wake-like cards.

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26 Jul 2013 18:09 - 27 Jul 2013 01:52 #52301 by Adonai
Can't untap via Vigilance either.

Q) Can a tapped Imbued use Vigilance (reaction) to untap and play Determine as his predator plays Bum's Rush?

A) No. Vigilance's effect is not an "as some card is played" effect. { LSJ 04/30/2009 }


vtes-hunter-net.tripod.com/FAQ.htm
Last edit: 27 Jul 2013 01:52 by Adonai.

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31 Jul 2013 13:26 #52559 by Pascal Bertrand
Correct answers (and sources) from Ankha, jamesatzephyr and Adonai.

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