Julius, agro and trophies

Julius is redlisted and in combat with hektor. Hektor punches one agg, julius goes to torpor and burns due to his special text.
Does the trophy mechanism trigger?
I would assume yes, but some confirmation would be great

Blooded wrote:

Julius is redlisted and in combat with hektor. Hektor punches one agg, julius goes to torpor and burns due to his special text.
Does the trophy mechanism trigger?
I would assume yes, but some confirmation would be great

The question is whether he burns "in combat" or not. (Since "in combat" is the timing required to activate the Red List rule.)

In [LSJ 20090923] , we're impliedly told this does work:

LSJ wrote:

> I
> meant what happens when Julius goes to torpor in combat (for example
> Nana strikes him with a Slam).

Oh, sorry. Right: if he burns in combat, the opposing minion is considered to
have burned him.

This doesn't explicitly say it happens then for Julius, but that's the implication.

However, there is an older (pre-Red List) ruling about Julius's timing:
[LSJ 20000606]

LSJ wrote:

[snip - can Julius's burning be used with Ritual of the Bitter Rose]

Julius doesn't burn until he goes to torpor, and he can't be in combat
at that point, so he wouldn't count.

The Complete Rules Reference says that when you go to torpor, you go to end of round, then end of combat:

So potentially, Julius goes to torpor, ending the round - and the burning also happens in E.i? Which would also make Julius a legal target for Ritual, as well as triggering Red List.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Blooded wrote:

Julius is redlisted and in combat with hektor. Hektor punches one agg, julius goes to torpor and burns due to his special text.
Does the trophy mechanism trigger?
I would assume yes, but some confirmation would be great

The question is whether he burns "in combat" or not. (Since "in combat" is the timing required to activate the Red List rule.)

In [LSJ 20090923] , we're impliedly told this does work:

LSJ wrote:

> I
> meant what happens when Julius goes to torpor in combat (for example
> Nana strikes him with a Slam).

Oh, sorry. Right: if he burns in combat, the opposing minion is considered to
have burned him.

This doesn't explicitly say it happens then for Julius, but that's the implication.

However, there is an older (pre-Red List) ruling about Julius's timing:
[LSJ 20000606]

LSJ wrote:

[snip - can Julius's burning be used with Ritual of the Bitter Rose]

Julius doesn't burn until he goes to torpor, and he can't be in combat
at that point, so he wouldn't count.

The Complete Rules Reference says that when you go to torpor, you go to end of round, then end of combat:

NOTE: If either of the combatants is burned or goes to torpor during the course of combat, combat ends (go to step VI.E). [6.4.3]

...
E. Round Ends. [6.4.4]

i. Apply any end-of-round effects.
ii. If the press step ended with "to continue", then another round begins (Go back to step A).

F. Combat Ends. [6.4.7]

So potentially, Julius goes to torpor, ending the round - and the burning also happens in E.i? Which would also make Julius a legal target for Ritual, as well as triggering Red List.

This was my thinking as well, so it applies then, yes?