file When? When not? Where?

01 May 2014 06:33 - 01 May 2014 06:34 #61715 by Ashur
When? When not? Where? was created by Ashur
Some basic timing questions here:

1a) When are you allowed to react with stuff that you can co "anytime"? (Examples: Draw cards with Dreams of the Sphinx, look at cards under Storage Annex, burn the Edge to untap Torvus, etc)

1b) When are you not allowed to react? (Example: If I recall correctly, you are not allowed to draw cards with Dreams to find a Direct Intervention in response to a mionion card being played, and DI it with the DI you draw.)

2) Are you always allowed to play "wake"-cards like On the Qui Vive as reaction to a action, regardless of when during the action you do it? (Example: Rake hunts. No blocks. When the hunt resolves and Nik gets his blood, Carna, Theo and Ur-Shulgi reacts with On the Qui Vive.)

3) Where in the rulebook is the answers to 1a/b and 2 stated?

"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Last edit: 01 May 2014 06:34 by Ashur.

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01 May 2014 08:27 - 01 May 2014 08:58 #61719 by jamesatzephyr

1a) When are you allowed to react with stuff that you can co "anytime"? (Examples: Draw cards with Dreams of the Sphinx, look at cards under Storage Annex, burn the Edge to untap Torvus, etc)


You can use an effect whenever you have the impulse (using normal sequencing rules) and there isn't a prohibition on you doing this.

Sequencing. If two or more players want to play a card or effect, the acting Methuselah plays first. At every stage, the acting player always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect. So after playing one effect, she may play another and another.


Only certain things can go in the 'as played' window, similarly the 'as announced' window (e.g. you can't play Bonding before Seduction). The 'as announced' bit is in the CRR .

Cards that are played "as the action is announced" may be played (other effects cannot be played until after the "as announced" stuff is finished). [RTR]


I wouldn't classify "looking at the Storage Annex" as an impulse-resetting effect, myself, though it's arguable. In particular, since players are allowed to take notes during tournament games, they could - in theory - write down "I put Deflection on that SA" in their notes, and consult them at any time. So it would seem unhelpful to enforce this being an impulse-reseting effect, because note-taking (which avoids this) slows the game down. Probably better just to let players look. But it's arguable.

1b) When are you not allowed to react? (Example: If I recall correctly, you are not allowed to draw cards with Dreams to find a Direct Intervention in response to a mionion card being played, and DI it with the DI you draw.)


That's explicitly in the rules. The only things that can go in the 'as played' window are effects that specifically say they go in that window, and wake-like effects.

Some effects can cancel a card "as it is played." These effects (and effects that grant the ability to play them, like Forced Awakening) are the only effects allowed during the "as played" time period of another card. Even drawing to replace cards comes after this time period.


2) Are you always allowed to play "wake"-cards like On the Qui Vive as reaction to a action, regardless of when during the action you do it? (Example: Rake hunts. No blocks. When the hunt resolves and Nik gets his blood, Carna, Theo and Ur-Shulgi reacts with On the Qui Vive.)


Interesting question. By default, action modifiers and reactions are played before resolution, by default. (Action modifiers: [FZD 20110920] . Reactions and action modifiers: [LSJ 20091120] )

Edit to add: I forgot this is explicitly in the rulebook. 6.2:

Action modifiers and reaction cards can be played at any time before resolution during an action (unless otherwise noted on card text), with the acting Methuselah getting the opportunity to play first.


But wake-like cards are, again, treated in a special way, despite the lack of card text (a follow-up to the immediately preceding LSJ link):

[LSJ 20091123]

> Can Wake-like cards (WWeF, Forced Awakening, On the Qui Vive etc.) be played
> after resolution of an action, even though they don't have such explicit
> card text ? For instance, since you can play Wake+Denial of Aphrodite's
> Favor to cancel a Voter Captivation (the VC being played after resolution of
> the action, same timing window as Freak Drive), I guess you should be able
> to play just a Wake (for cycling purposes) after an action resolves ?
>
Yes.


As others point uot in that thread, it would probably have been helpful if wake-like cards were given a keyword with a special rule covering them, but that isn't where we are. But the rulings are still the rulings.

It's sort-of, semi-implicit from being playable in the 'as played' window (which could be in response to a card being played after resolution), but it's not great.
Last edit: 01 May 2014 08:58 by jamesatzephyr.
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01 May 2014 14:52 #61725 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic Re: When? When not? Where?
Thanks jamesatzephyr! Anyone have anything to add, or is he right?

"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

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01 May 2014 15:31 #61727 by jamesatzephyr

Anyone have anything to add


I should probably also point out this discussion from a few weeks ago.

www.vekn.net/forum/6-rules-questions/60398-target-cards-and-cancelling-strikes#60512

Which appears to confirm a similar "as announced" phase for strikes, as well as actions. So you can play Lucky Blow, Target Vitals, Chiropteran Marauder, but not Lucky Blow, Chiropteran Marauder, Target Vitals.

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