Andre LeRoux + spying mission

TwoRazorReign wrote:

"Timing windows" is not defined in the rulebook. Sequencing is.

So are transfers. So is the library. So is the untap phase. So is infernal. The blood bank is in the rules. None of them are relevant to this issue. Sequencing is also irrelevant to the problem you believe exists.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

Players are going to use sequencing to solve problems because it is outlined in the rulebook.

The reason the Outline (now the Complete Rules Reference) was created was to help players understand which phases are known to happen in which order.

Please read Ankha's example. Ankha was using the sequencing rules to make his point.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

Please read Ankha's example. Ankha was using the sequencing rules to make his point.

Erm, not really?

Two things can happen in the same timing window. The sequencing rules would determine which player got to play/use one first, if there was a conflict. When a player can play an effect - such as using Andre LeRoux or Spying Mission - he can play either of them. Sequencing simply lets him play an effect in that phase, or prohibits him from doing so right now because another player has priority to do so.

Then, the player has two effects that they can play. It is possible for one such effect to invalidate the second, such as (for example): an action modifier ending the action, so subsequent action modifiers can't be played; adjusting a bleed amount so that a bleed is successful or not; removing blood/life from a minion so that they can't afford to play the card.

I'm not referring to Andre LeRoux and Spying Mission when I am talking about sequencing. I am referring to this section here about Horrific Countenance and Lucas Halton (I'm quoting Ankha here):

This is so "obvious" that you're wrong, the action is blocked at some point and the "when x blocks" requirement is fulfilled.
For instance, acting minion A is blocked by Lucas Halton. A doesn't play any card, Lucas has the priority and uses his special because the action is blocked. Then A gets back priority and plays Horrific Countenance. The action isn't blocked anymore.
so the action was blocked, and is no longer blocked.

Do you have a take on that issue? I'd like to hear it.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

I'm not referring to Andre LeRoux and Spying Mission when I am talking about sequencing. I am referring to this section here about Horrific Countenance and Lucas Halton (I'm quoting Ankha here):

This is so "obvious" that you're wrong, the action is blocked at some point and the "when x blocks" requirement is fulfilled.
For instance, acting minion A is blocked by Lucas Halton. A doesn't play any card, Lucas has the priority and uses his special because the action is blocked. Then A gets back priority and plays Horrific Countenance. The action isn't blocked anymore.
so the action was blocked, and is no longer blocked.

Do you have a take on that issue? I'd like to hear it.

It's still pretty much nothing to do with sequencing. Sequencing says: when two (or more) players want to use an effect at the same time, which of them goes first? That's it. That is the sum total of what sequencing is about.

Then, in any case where an effect has already been used and is still in effect - whether five turns ago, in the "as announced" phase of this action, in the "pre-range" step of combat when we're now in choose strike, or the immediately preceding card/effect in this phase - it may mean that a later play of a card or an effect isn't possible because, for example:

- the minion who wants to play that card is now dead
- the minion who wants to play that card is now short of blood/life/whatever to pay for it
- the cost of that effect is now too expensive (e.g. my play of Terror Frenzy means that your combat card is now too expensive for you, whether that combat card is another pre-range card, a strike card, Pulled Fangs, whatever)
- a pre-condition is no longer met (from the rules, from card text etc.), such as an ally being unable to play a reaction card now that he is tapped from Command , or my playing Folderol (superior) cross-table means that you won't be able to play Archon Investigation when the bleed resolves (because the bleed is now too small).


If playing Horrific Countenance invalidates a later card play because the action is no longer blocked, that's what it does. Sequencing is only relevant in who got to play their card or effect first. Once Horrific Countenance has been used (and not cancelled), its effect takes place, and any subsequent card play to which it is relevant has to bear it in mind - just like me playing Blind Spot during my master phase may invalidate some card plays by your vampire during my minion phase, which sequencing also has nothing to do with.

It's still pretty much nothing to do with sequencing. Sequencing says: when two (or more) players want to use an effect at the same time, which of them goes first? That's it. That is the sum total of what sequencing is about.

That's not really what the rulebook says.

Sequencing is only relevant in who got to play their card or effect first.

Such as in Ankha's example.