file Wakes, Untaps and Impulse/Timing windows

11 Sep 2015 03:26 - 11 Sep 2015 03:30 #73023 by 2wayspeaker

Second Tradition: Domain ReactionRequires a ready prince or justicar.+2 intercept. Also usable by a tapped prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn a blood to untap and attempt to block with +2 intercept.

Wake with Evening's Freshness Reaction Do not replace until your next untap phase.Only usable by a tapped vampire. This reacting vampire can play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the current action is concluded.

Eluding the Arms of Morpheus ReactionOnly usable by a tapped vampire.This vampire untaps and attempts to block.

The rules are cloudy on this subject for me.
1) I can use a wake whenever I want. Aka my grandprey anounces a bleed action, I can play wwef and tell him "Yeah that was it, didn't have eagle sight". Correct?

2) My prey does something and I want to wake.
When can I play this wake? Is it right after he says "Carlton" and taps the vampire?
Does "the impulse" allow him to play action modifiers before allowing wakes?

3) How much vampires can I wake simultaneously? Can I wake say 4 vampires before giving the impulse back?

4) Eluding the arms of Morpheus vs Second Trad.
First thing both cards say is: attempt to block. From what I find on old rules sites you can only
Play these cards on actions you WOULD ALREADY be allowed to block. Ergo you can't use these crosstable and you can't use these to untap and play eagle sight to block a bleed of your prey/crosstable. Correct?

5) Because Eluding and 2nd are "untap and attempt to block" cards and not "play reaction cards as if untapped"
What happens to the impulse? When do I get to play eam/2nd trad and how much vampires can I untap simultaneously before allowing the opposing methuselah to play action modifiers?

EDIT: 6) how about when the acting minion has 3 stealth currently. How much Eluding/2nd tradition can I play simultaneously now?
Last edit: 11 Sep 2015 03:30 by 2wayspeaker.

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11 Sep 2015 04:40 - 11 Sep 2015 04:50 #73024 by Ankha

1) I can use a wake whenever I want.

It's a reaction card, so it can be played only during an action. You can play it any time during the action, including when the action card is played or the action is announced (that's the special thing with Wakes).

Aka my grandprey anounces a bleed action, I can play wwef and tell him "Yeah that was it, didn't have eagle sight". Correct?

Correct.

2) My prey does something and I want to wake.
When can I play this wake? Is it right after he says "Carlton" and taps the vampire?
Does "the impulse" allow him to play action modifiers before allowing wakes?

I suppose you mean during the recruit action? When his vampire announces the recruit action and plays the card, there's the "as played" window during which anyone (following the impulse) can play a cancellation card or a wake. This doesn't mean we jump to the "block attempt" window yet. He still can play action modifiers before that, such as Seduction ("as the action is announced. The chosen vampire can't attempt to block").

3) How much vampires can I wake simultaneously? Can I wake say 4 vampires before giving the impulse back?

You can wake any number of vampires, but you have to give the impulse back each time.
For instance:
A: Arika bleeds for 3.
B: Cailean plays a wake
A: ok, i don't play cards right now, do you block?
B: not yet. I need to cycle: Jorge de la Muerte plays an On the Qui Vive
A: ok, fine, any block?
B: Cailean attempts to block

etc.

4) Eluding the arms of Morpheus vs Second Trad.
First thing both cards say is: attempt to block. From what I find on old rules sites you can only
Play these cards on actions you WOULD ALREADY be allowed to block. Ergo you can't use these crosstable and you can't use these to untap and play eagle sight to block a bleed of your prey/crosstable. Correct?

Correct. You can't play a card that says "X attempts to block" if X is not allowed to attempt to block (prey-predator restriction etc.) at that moment. Anneke can do that because she's already allowed to block before playing a 2nd Tradition for instance.
Also, you can't play those cards during the cancellation window or the "as played" window since block attemps happen after that.

5) Because Eluding and 2nd are "untap and attempt to block" cards and not "play reaction cards as if untapped"
What happens to the impulse? When do I get to play eam/2nd trad and how much vampires can I untap simultaneously before allowing the opposing methuselah to play action modifiers?


You can't play them in order to deny the possibility to the acting minion to play action modifiers. Each time you play a card, you give the impulse back to the acting.

A: Arika bleeds for 3. (No action modifier for the moment,) do you block? (A passes the impulse)
B: Anson plays 2nd Tradition and attempts to block. (impulse goes back to A)
A: Arika plays Lost in Crowds. (player A keeps the impulse, he's acting). Arika plays Faceless Night. Total: 3 stealth (impulse goes back to B)
B: Volker plays 2nd Tradition and attempts to block. He's missing intercept right now.
A: no action modifier for the moment. Do you add intercept?
B: I tap KRCG to give him +1 intercept.

As soon as B attempts to block with Anson, he can't attempt to block with someone else if the block is successful. Eg.

A: Arika bleeds for 3. Block?
B: Anson plays 2nd Tradition and attempts to block. (impulse goes back to A)
A: Arika plays Lost in Crowds. Damned, I'm blocked.
(B can't play 2nd Tradition with Volker)

EDIT: 6) how about when the acting minion has 3 stealth currently. How much Eluding/2nd tradition can I play simultaneously now?

Considering that you vampires have no intercept, Anson can play 2nd Tradition, fail to block, Volker can play 2nd Tradition, fail to block etc. until you either succeed to block or decline to block. Eg.

A: Arika bleeds for 3 at 3 stealth (for whatever reason).
B: Anson plays 2nd Trad. Not enough intercept.
A: ok, what's next? (passes the impulse)
B: Volker plays 2nd Trad. Not enough intercept.
A: ok, what's next? (passes the impulse)
B: I attempt to block again with Anson (since he's untapped).
A: ok, what's next? (passes the impulse)
B: I tap KRCG to give Anson +1 intercept.
A: I'm blocked.


Bonus scenario:
A: Arika bleeds for 3 at 3 stealth.
B: Anson plays 2nd Tradition and attempt to block. I'm lacking 1 stealth.
A: I won't let you cycle an intercept card! Elder Impersonation superior, your block attempt with Anson fails.

Elder Impersonation:
[OBF] Only usable when a minion attempts to block. The attempt fails (do not tap that blocking minion). That minion cannot attempt to block this action again.

Bonus scenario 2:
A: Arika bleeds for 3 at 3 stealth. I don't want you to play 2nd Tradition to untap in order to deflect my bleed, so I'll play Daring the Dawn.
B: I can't play 2nd Tradition. Hopefully, I had a wake. Wake. No block.
A: it's 3.
B: Deflection on my prey.

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Last edit: 11 Sep 2015 04:50 by Ankha.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Blooded Sand, SLave, self biased, 2wayspeaker

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11 Sep 2015 05:13 #73025 by 2wayspeaker
Thank you, that was very clear.

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12 Sep 2015 07:57 #73037 by Pascal Bertrand
I'll complete Ankha's answers.

Second Tradition: Domain ReactionRequires a ready prince or justicar.+2 intercept. Also usable by a tapped prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn a blood to untap and attempt to block with +2 intercept.

Wake with Evening's Freshness Reaction Do not replace until your next untap phase.Only usable by a tapped vampire. This reacting vampire can play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the current action is concluded.

Eluding the Arms of Morpheus ReactionOnly usable by a tapped vampire.This vampire untaps and attempts to block.

The rules are cloudy on this subject for me.
1) I can use a wake whenever I want. Aka my grandprey anounces a bleed action, I can play wwef and tell him "Yeah that was it, didn't have eagle sight". Correct?

Almost correct.
You can play a Wake with Evening's Freshness (or any other "wake" card -- those that read "can play reaction cards as though untapped") in the "as announced" window. As usual, if more than one player wants to do so, we follow the sequencing rule (acting, target, others clockwise).
You can say "I have no Eagle's Sight" after playing a WwEF in the "as announced" window. However, since we haven't yet reached the block attempts, that say is non-binding. You will still be eligible for playing Eagle's Sight a bit later.

2) My prey does something and I want to wake.
When can I play this wake? Is it right after he says "Carlton" and taps the vampire?
Does "the impulse" allow him to play action modifiers before allowing wakes?

You can indeed play a WwEF as he says "Carlton with this vampire" (and before he taps the vampire). That's the "as played" window, in which card-cancellers such as Rewind Time (or Direct Intervetion) get played. This WwEF would be played before the replacement card for Carlton was drawn.
You can play a WwEF in the "as announced" window - in this window, the acting get the impulse to play Seduction before you get to play your WwEF. If the acting doesn't play Seduction, you still get the opportunity to play WwEF in the "as announced" window. Do note that the impulse will go back to the acting, and he will be able to play Seduction (or other "as announced" cards).
You can play a WwEF in the usual "block attempts" window. The acting always gets the impulse to play an action modifier (or use an effect of a card he controls), but if he passes (could be after playing 0 or more cards), you get the impulse to play WwEF. Classic example: "Ozmo bleeds with Govern the Unaligned. Do you block?" "Yes, I wake Carna".
After blocks are declined, you can still play WwEF (and the acting can also still play action modifiers - usually bleed boosters). Classic example : "Ozmo bleeds you with Govern the Unaligned. Blocks?" "I decline blocking." "OK, that's a Conditioning to make it 6." "Wake with Carna, deflection to my prey."


The other answers were correct.
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