file Reform Body & Amaranth

09 Oct 2016 09:34 #78624 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic Reform Body & Amaranth

In Jyhad, it was optional. In Sabbat Wars, it was still optional but it was made clear that Blood Hunt wasn't part of the action so no action modifiers etc. could be played. Since Camarilla Edition, the Blood Hunt is automatically called.


Righto, never read rulebooks past Sabbat Wars and only even skimmed the sabbat wars rulebook...

And I can't see why being optional would be more simple than being automatic.


Well not the optional part, but a very old (perhaps wrong) interpretation in our region was that it happened (could be called by any methusaleh) after the action (including combat) was concluded. Which for one would've made this thread never exist.

So now it happens (for at least 14 years) inside a special bubble inside an action... check ;)

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength

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09 Oct 2016 12:06 - 09 Oct 2016 12:06 #78627 by TwoRazorReign

GreyB wrote: Well not the optional part, but a very old (perhaps wrong) interpretation in our region was that it happened (could be called by any methusaleh) after the action (including combat) was concluded. Which for one would've made this thread never exist.


We can help make threads like this not exist anymore with a simple tweak to the rulebook. Let's read the offending part:

"This referendum is not an action, so it cannot be blocked, and action modifiers and reaction cards cannot be played. Otherwise, this referendum is handled just like any other."


Combat cards are not mentioned in the list of cards that cannot be played. Hence this thread and all the others.
Last edit: 09 Oct 2016 12:06 by TwoRazorReign.

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09 Oct 2016 12:26 #78628 by jamesatzephyr

GreyB wrote: Holy complication batman...

Would've been a lot simpler if the blood hunt was something a Methusaleh could call after an action where diablerie happened has been resolved. I now see it's an automatic referendum in the rulebook, has it been changed in the last 20 years? I realy thought it was something a Methusaleh could call and it even being optional..


A few rulings / rules changes have affected the Blood Hunt over time:

1) In Sabbat, there was the concept of the Wild Hunt, in the rules supplement. Except cards still talked about Blood Hunts. So the weird idea of the Wild Hunt was abolished.

2) When the "atomic diablerie" ruling was made, the Blood Hunt referendum was the final part of diablerie. Now, the Blood Hunt referendum takes place after the atomic diablerie. The atomic diablerie ruling is now in the rulebook: 6.5.5 "The steps of diablerie are treated as a single unit. No effects can be used to interrupt the diablerie; effects may be played either before or after, as appropriate."

3) The referendum to call the blood hunt is non-optional.

4) Exactly why you can't play action modifiers etc. As LSJ says in the bit I quoted, just before the orange highlight-y text:
I've been overstating the last part when I've said "modifiers and
reactions cannot be played because there is no action to modify
or react to".

So there was some confusion on the point. The referendum and blood hunt were clarified to happen at the time of the diablerie (during combat, during action resolution, or whenever the diablerie happened).

Because the diablerist can burn there and then, it can stop later card plays. For example, if an acting vampire plays Amaranth and gets burned, they can't play cards after combat, such as Freak Drive etc.

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27 Nov 2018 18:56 #92049 by JUANXO
Replied by JUANXO on topic Reform Body & Amaranth
So after the Blood hunt concluded, can I play "Reform body" as a reaction to be burned if the blood hunt concludes to burn my vampire?

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27 Nov 2018 19:04 #92051 by kpram
Replied by kpram on topic Reform Body & Amaranth
I've always hated that actions/reaction cards can't be played in the blood hunt. Your power to influence votes? Nope, not available now. Yet another reason Dread Gaze sucks.

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27 Nov 2018 22:38 #92058 by jamesatzephyr

JUANXO wrote: So after the Blood hunt concluded, can I play "Reform body" as a reaction to be burned if the blood hunt concludes to burn my vampire?


No (nor as a combat card).

The blood hunt is handled independently of any action or combat, so you can't play action modifiers or reactions. That includes Dread Gaze etc. for votes in polling, but carrying out the burning of the vampire is also part of the blood hunt.

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