file Haven Uncovered

25 Nov 2017 21:46 #84364 by Gangrel1964
Gangrel1964 created the topic: Haven Uncovered
Hello,

So, we've been playing vampire for a long time, however, we think we may have been using Haven Uncovered incorrectly.We weren't able to find a clear answer searching the web so I figured we'd ask.

If a player puts Haven Uncovered on another vampire do they still control it as far as the D action to remove it from the vampire is concerned. (IE: Does the person who played the haven the only one who can block the action to remove it?)

Additionally, if the person who played Haven Uncovered is ousted, do they take Haven Uncovered with them when they leave? If not, would the action to remove the card become an undirected action? If Haven Uncovered is removed from play with the player, would the same thing happen with master disciplines as well?

Again, we feel weird for not knowing. We appreciate your help and insight!

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26 Nov 2017 01:31 - 26 Nov 2017 01:40 #84366 by Bloodartist
Bloodartist replied the topic: Haven Uncovered

Gangrel1964 wrote: If a player puts Haven Uncovered on another vampire do they still control it as far as the D action to remove it from the vampire is concerned. (IE: Does the person who played the haven the only one who can block the action to remove it?)

D-action to remove the haven is directed at the controller of Haven uncovered, ie. the person who played it. Its the only meaningful choice if you think about it, otherwise nobody could block the removal.

D-actions can only be blocked by players that are the target of the d-action (barring cards like eagles sight).

Additionally, if the person who played Haven Uncovered is ousted, do they take Haven Uncovered with them when they leave?


Yes they do, since they are the controller of haven uncovered. Same thing as with Pentex subversion.

This is different from cards whose controller changes. A common example is powerbase montreal. If Montreal is controlled by someone other than its owner when the owner is ousted, Montreal stays on the table. (stupid rule btw)

"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker
Last Edit: 26 Nov 2017 01:40 by Bloodartist.
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26 Nov 2017 08:59 #84368 by jamesatzephyr
jamesatzephyr replied the topic: Haven Uncovered

Gangrel1964 wrote: If a player puts Haven Uncovered on another vampire do they still control it as far as the D action to remove it from the vampire is concerned. (IE: Does the person who played the haven the only one who can block the action to remove it?)


This bit of the rulebook helps:

Rulebook, 1.6.2 wrote: A master card in play is, by default, controlled by the Methuselah who played it, even if it is played on a card controlled by another Methuselah.


Bloodartist wrote: D-action to remove the haven is directed at the controller of Haven uncovered, ie. the person who played it. Its the only meaningful choice if you think about it, otherwise nobody could block the removal.


Not quite. The (D) symbol on a card isn't determinative of whether or not the action is directed or undirected - that's determined by the targets of the action. The (D) symbol simply indicates what the card writer thought would happen (see 6.2.2.1 of the rulebook: "As a convenience, when a card describes an action that is typically directed at another Methuselah, the card's text will usually include a (D) symbol as a reminder that the action is typically directed."). If the vampire with the Haven Uncovered ends up being controlled by the Methuselah who controls the Haven Uncovered (e.g. some sort of vampire theft card, like Graverobbing), then the action to burn it would be undirected, blockable by prey and predator as normal.

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