file Can a vampire use multiple "attempt to block" effects?

29 Nov 2017 10:38 #84396 by ResurrectioN
Scenario A
A tapped vampire attempts to block an action by playing Eluding the Arms of Morpheus.
Intercept and stealth are matched.

Can the vampire play Guardian Vigil or use effect of Under Siege?

Scenario B
A vampire attempts to block an action by playing Eluding the Arms of Morpheus.
Action is at more stealth then the intercept the vampire has.

Can the vampire play Guardian Vigil or use effect of Under Siege?

Eluding the Arms of Morpheus
Only usable by a tapped vampire.
This vampire untaps and attempts to block.

Under Siege
+1 stealth action. Requires a titled Sabbat vampire. Unique.
Put this card in play with 3 counters. Once each action, a Sabbat vampire you control can burn 1 counter from this card to unlock and attempt to block with +1 intercept, even if intercept is not yet needed. Burn this card when it has no counters.

Guardian Vigil
Requires an anarch. More than one discipline can be used when playing this card. This anarch attempts to block.
[aus] +1 intercept, even if intercept is not yet needed.
[cel] This anarch gets 1 optional maneuver in the resulting combat if he or she blocks.
[for] This anarch does not tap for the block.

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29 Nov 2017 13:07 - 29 Nov 2017 13:08 #84398 by Ankha

ResurrectioN wrote: Scenario A
A tapped vampire attempts to block an action by playing Eluding the Arms of Morpheus.
Intercept and stealth are matched.

Can the vampire play Guardian Vigil or use effect of Under Siege?

Yes (because they grant intercept "even if intercept is not yet needed.")
This is otherwise similar to attempting to block, and playing Eagle's Sight at AUS to "cycle".

LSJ wrote: > - After player A play +1 stealth and B play +1 intercept can player B
> block with superior ES (just for card cycling) the bleed?
Yes.

groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/4ctVyrAAfOg/__niW-SI9F4J

ResurrectioN wrote: Scenario B
A vampire attempts to block an action by playing Eluding the Arms of Morpheus.
Action is at more stealth then the intercept the vampire has.

Can the vampire play Guardian Vigil or use effect of Under Siege?

Yes.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 29 Nov 2017 13:08 by Ankha.
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04 Dec 2017 22:23 #84462 by Pascal Bertrand

Ankha wrote:

ResurrectioN wrote: Scenario A
A tapped vampire attempts to block an action by playing Eluding the Arms of Morpheus.
Intercept and stealth are matched.

Can the vampire play Guardian Vigil or use effect of Under Siege?

Yes (because they grant intercept "even if intercept is not yet needed.")
This is otherwise similar to attempting to block, and playing Eagle's Sight at AUS to "cycle".

LSJ wrote: > - After player A play +1 stealth and B play +1 intercept can player B
> block with superior ES (just for card cycling) the bleed?
Yes.

groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/4ctVyrAAfOg/__niW-SI9F4J

I strongly suspect this to be incorrect.
www.vekn.net/detailed-play-summary reads : NOTE: For each block attempt, resolve the attempt (step C.) before going on to the next attempt.

If I am wrong, how do we handle the following scenarii :
- Vampire A has Dominion (Vampires must burn 1 blood to attempt to block this Black Hand vampire.) and declares an action. Vampire B attempts to block, and during that attempt, would play Eagle's Sight. Does B burn blood twice to Dominion ?
- Vampire A declares an action. Vampire B attempts to block. Vampire A plays Dawn Operation (or whatever), can vampires B and C play Coterie Tactics (These two vampires attempt to block) ?
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05 Dec 2017 09:22 - 05 Jan 2018 10:51 #84465 by Ankha
This is a good point. Since LSJ's ruling seems weird and makes things convoluted (or maybe there was a confusion with playing Eagle's Sight to attempt to block vs when already attempting to block), I revert his ruling.

You can declare only one block attempt at a time. If the block attempt is not successful, only then can you declare another block attempt.


EDIT: This reversal has been canceled.

So:

ResurrectioN wrote: Scenario A
A tapped vampire attempts to block an action by playing Eluding the Arms of Morpheus.
Intercept and stealth are matched.

Can the vampire play Guardian Vigil or use effect of Under Siege?

No. You have already an ongoing block attempt that is currently successful.

ResurrectioN wrote: Scenario B
A vampire attempts to block an action by playing Eluding the Arms of Morpheus.
Action is at more stealth then the intercept the vampire has.

Can the vampire play Guardian Vigil or use effect of Under Siege?

You have to declare first that the initial block attempt fails. Then, you can play Guardian Vigil or Under Siege to declare a new block attempt.
This means that you would have to burn twice 1 blood to attempt to block Giotto ("Vampires must burn 1 blood to attempt to block Giotto.")

Also:
- A is acting. B is attempting to block. B can't play Eagle's Sight at superior "to cycle".
- A is acting. There is no ongoing block attempt. B can play Eagle's Sight at superior to attempt to block.

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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 05 Jan 2018 10:51 by Ankha.
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05 Dec 2017 13:11 - 05 Dec 2017 13:12 #84470 by Boris The Blade
How long the intercept last on a "attempt to block with +X intercept" card? If A is acting at 2 Stealth, can B attempt to block with Guardian Vigil, fail, then try again with e.g. Read the Winds for a total +2 intercept?
Last edit: 05 Dec 2017 13:12 by Boris The Blade.

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05 Dec 2017 13:37 #84471 by Ankha

Boris The Blade wrote: How long the intercept last on a "attempt to block with +X intercept" card? If A is acting at 2 Stealth, can B attempt to block with Guardian Vigil, fail, then try again with e.g. Read the Winds for a total +2 intercept?

Yes, the intercept gained lasts for the duration of the action.

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