file Red Question and CrimethINC

25 Jan 2018 13:20 #85092 by XZealot
A non-anarch vampires bleeds which is an action that does not require an anarch.

A Red Question is played which makes the vampire an anarch.

The vampire was not an anarch before the action but was after the action. He became an anarch during the action.

Does this fulfill the requirement of "Play after resolving a successful action that requires an anarch or makes this vampire an anarch." and being able to play CrimethINC?

CrimethInc.
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: anarch Protean/Quietus/Thaumaturgy
Requires an anarch. Play after resolving a successful action that requires an anarch or makes this vampire an anarch.
[pro] Untap this anarch.
[qui] Untap another ready anarch.
[tha] Put this card in play. During your minion phase, you may burn a pool to untap a ready anarch you control.

Red Question, The
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: non-titled,non-anarch
Cost: 1 blood
Requires a non-titled, non-anarch vampire.
Put this card on this vampire. This vampire is considered anarch (and Independent). Burn this card if this vampire changes sect.

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25 Jan 2018 15:12 #85095 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Red Question and CrimethINC

XZealot wrote: A non-anarch vampires bleeds which is an action that does not require an anarch.

A Red Question is played which makes the vampire an anarch.

The vampire was not an anarch before the action but was after the action. He became an anarch during the action.

Does this fulfill the requirement of "Play after resolving a successful action that requires an anarch or makes this vampire an anarch." and being able to play CrimethINC?

No. The action itself didn't make the vampire anarch.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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25 Jan 2018 22:27 #85108 by Cooper
Replied by Cooper on topic Red Question and CrimethINC
Really? He became an anarch as a result of the action. So it was an action that made the vamp anarch.

If there were a card that said "if you take an action and gain the edge then do x" it wouldnt work on a bleed, because the edge-gaining wasnt the action?

I would say : 1) was the action succesful, 2) was there an action which resulted in anarchhood for a vamp. If both is yes, crimethinc requirements are met?

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25 Jan 2018 23:02 #85109 by jamesatzephyr

Cooper wrote: Really? He became an anarch as a result of the action. So it was an action that made the vamp anarch.


No, he became an anarch as a result of playing Red Question. If the action had been blocked, the vampire would still have Red Question on them. If the action was terminated prior to resolution (say, Tangle Atropos' Hand at pot), it would still be on them. It's not the action making the vampire an anarch.

Along similar lines, awarding a trophy from an action requires burning a vampire as a (D) action, not simply having the vampire burn during the (D) action. [LSJ 20050328] - Daring the Dawn during a (D) action doesn't award a Trophy, because it's not the action that's burning you.

Cooper wrote: If there were a card that said "if you take an action and gain the edge then do x" it wouldnt work on a bleed, because the edge-gaining wasnt the action?


Two points:
1) that's a different phrasing, in that the issue here is an action THAT makes you an anarch, not an action AND you become an anarch;
2) it would be arguable that a bleed action is an action THAT gets you give the edge, in that that's a defined part of its resolution.

Cooper wrote: I would say : 1) was the action succesful, 2) was there an action which resulted in anarchhood for a vamp. If both is yes, crimethinc requirements are met?


The action didn't cause anarchhood - as you can see from the fact that the anarchhood persists if the action is blocked or terminated, and all the effects of the action are lost.

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25 Jan 2018 23:07 #85110 by Cooper
Replied by Cooper on topic Red Question and CrimethINC
ok, thx. i guess i agree. :-)
W

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