file Unleash Hell's Fury and Daring the Dawn

10 Feb 2020 10:34 - 10 Feb 2020 11:28 #98928 by Tadori
I have a question regarding Daring the dawn and unleash

Unleash is consider an vamp when he attmeps to block. Daring dosent allow vamps to block an action. So I would like to know if it prevents unleash from blocking an action. In my opinion yes, but we had a discussion about this last time we played, and I can't find an official answer

Unleash Hell's Fury

+1 stealth action. Requires an infernal vampire. Unique. Put this card in play. This card can attempt to block a action against you and is considered a 9-capacity infernal vampire with +2 intercept during that attempt; if successful, the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable environmental aggravated damage and this card is burned.

Daring the Dawn

Vampires cannot block this action. This vampire takes 2 unpreventable environmental aggravated damage after action resolution.
Last edit: 10 Feb 2020 11:28 by Tadori.

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10 Feb 2020 11:22 #98930 by Bloodartist

Tadori wrote: I have a question regarding Daring the dawn and unleash

Unleash is consider an vamp when he attmeps to block. Daring dosent allow vamps to block an action. So I would like to know if it prevents unleash from blocking an action. In my opinion yes, but we had a discussion about last time we played, and I can't find an official answer


Correct. If acting vampire plays daring the dawn, Unleash hells fury cannot block because it would block as a vampire.

Same goes for every "block fails" modifier out there. Particularly good vs unleash are modifiers that say "burn 1 blood or block fails" because unleash has no blood to burn.

"Plenty of little men tried to put their swords through my heart. And there's plenty of little skeletons buried in the woods."
- Tormund Giantsbane, Game of Thrones
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10 Feb 2020 11:33 #98931 by Kilrauko

Tadori wrote: I have a question regarding Daring the dawn and unleash

Unleash is consider an vamp when he attmeps to block. Daring dosent allow vamps to block an action. So I would like to know if it prevents unleash from blocking an action. In my opinion yes, but we had a discussion about last time we played, and I can't find an official answer

Unleash Hell's Fury

+1 stealth action. Requires an infernal vampire. Unique. Put this card in play. This card can attempt to block a action against you and is considered a 9-capacity infernal vampire with +2 intercept during that attempt; if successful, the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable environmental aggravated damage and this card is burned.

Daring the Dawn

Vampires cannot block this action. This vampire takes 2 unpreventable environmental aggravated damage after action resolution.


Yes.

When it comes to Unleash Hell's Fury and specifically block denials (which Daring the Dawn is, only instead targeted a single minion it's targeting minion type) LSJ has said the following in the past. If there's been changes to it I'm sure to be corrected.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/In6Y-vYq5UQ/XN5s_ojszV8J

LSJ in 2010 wrote: > It seems that the timing of when Unleashed hells Fury is a card vs a
> minion is important, I was curious how the block fail mechanic
> interacted with the card. It seems that many block fail cards cause
> the block to fail outright and then prohibit additional block
> attempts. Many use the text "That minion cannot attempt to block this
> action again". So some questions arises in how does this text
> interact with the timing of when UHF is a minion and a non-minion.

The card is played. The minion that is UHF is the target. The UHF card
may or may not be able to block again, but it is moot, since if it can
block, then it finds itself to be a minion who is prohibited from
blocking and so the attempt immediately ends itself.

> Timing example:
>
> Minion A takes a D action
> UHF attempts to block and becomes a minion.
> Minion A plays a block fail and UHF fails to block, reverting back to
> a card.
>
> Can UHF attempt to block again as it is not a minion when it declares
> its block attempt?

Perhaps. If it does so, the block immediately ends as soon as it
begins (i.e., as soon as the UHF is a minion again).

> Lets say it actually can bypass this restriction and can attempt to
> block again. When it turns back into a minion what happens then?
> Does the "That minion cannot attempt to block this action again" text
> kick in and immediately fail the new attempt?

Yes.


The "...finds itself to be a minion who is prohibited from blocking and so the attempt immediately ends itself." is what I'm using as rationale for the yes above, Daring the Dawn does not say a vampire block fails, it says it should never even begin. Unleash Hell's Fury circumvents that by not being a vampire normally and enters straight to the block attempt (per card text), the attempt just ends.
To me this means no window for activated abilities, no tapped locations or played cards as the attempt ends the moment it has begun because the game state is not "legal" as minion who cannot block is attempting a block. Therefore it follows the shortest resolution back to legal state. With cards played I mean cycling hand by playing say inferior Babble at it with "[dem] Give another ready minion +1 intercept." as the Unleash Hell's Fury is not valid target when it's not blocking etc.

Name: Daring the Dawn
[Sabbat:R, SW:R/PV, FN:PR, LoB:PI, Third:R, FB:PV1]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Fortitude
[for] Vampires cannot block this action. This vampire takes 2 unpreventable environmental aggravated damage after action resolution.
[FOR] As above, but this vampire takes 1 unpreventable environmental aggravated damage.
Artist: Pete Venters

Name: Unleash Hell's Fury
[HttB:R, Anthology:1]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 2 pool
Discipline: Daimoinon
Burn Option
+1 stealth action. Requires an infernal vampire. Unique.
[dai] Put this card in play. This card can attempt to block a (D) action against you {(or a card you control)} and is considered a 9-capacity infernal vampire with +2 intercept during that attempt; if successful, the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable {environmental} aggravated damage{} and this card is burned.
[DAI] As above, and unlock this vampire.
Artist: Brian LeBlanc; Ginés Quiñonero; Brian LeBlanc

Name: Babble
[BH:C/PM]
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Dementation
[dem] Give another ready minion +1 intercept.
[DEM] Lock this vampire to unlock another ready minion. Not usable by a blocking minion.
Artist: Rik Martin


Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
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