file Action Modifier - General Rule

27 Apr 2020 19:40 #99706 by Rémi
Dear all,

Can anyone help me please?
I can't find the rulebook part saying that only the acting player can use action modifier and I am sure it has to be written somewhere !!.

So I can't explain to a new player why player B cannot play Superior "Cloak the Gathering" on an acting minion controlled by player A during a bleed action directed to player C.

By the way…
Name: Cloak the Gathering
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Obfuscate
[obf] +1 stealth.
[OBF] Only usable by a ready vampire other than the acting minion. The acting minion gets +1 stealth.

1.6.3. Minion Cards
Action modifier cards: The acting minion can play these cards to modify his action. For example, some action modifiers increase the acting minion's stealth or bleed amount or give him more votes. A minion cannot play the same action modifier more than once during a single action.

6.3.3. Gaining Votes
Other Cards. Action modifiers, reaction cards, cards in play, etc. that grant more votes or ballots can all be used subject to the normal rules of playing cards (e.g., only the acting minion can play action modifiers and only ready unlocked minions controlled by Methuselahs other than the acting minion's controller can play reaction cards).

Thanks in advance for your help!
Régards,
Rémi

I am Rémi Cavaillé (), Barcelona (SPAIN). I was the Prince of Lyon (FRANCE) in 2003 :)

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27 Apr 2020 19:54 - 27 Apr 2020 19:58 #99707 by Kiddo
Wouldn't this be enough?

1.6.3. Minion Cards
Action modifier cards: The acting minion can play these cards to modify his action.

It is not the player, but the minion that plays action modifiers. And since your player B, the one that wants to modify that action, is neither a minion nor can he be in the control of an acting minion, he can't play that action modifier.
There are exceptions, but those are very clearly labeled so (for example, Cloak the Gathering - which actually can be used in a way your player B wants to :) ).
Last edit: 27 Apr 2020 19:58 by Kiddo.

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27 Apr 2020 21:18 - 27 Apr 2020 21:20 #99708 by Kilrauko

Kiddo wrote: ...
There are exceptions, but those are very clearly labeled so (for example, Cloak the Gathering - which actually can be used in a way your player B wants to :) ).


No, www.vekn.net/general-rulings with it's 1999 LSJ clearly states otherwise. Only the controller of a minion can play action modifiers to an action. In the OP's situation, only methusaleh A can play action modifiers while the rest (B & C) can play reaction cards.

Action Modifiers that can be played by minions other than the acting minion (Hidden Lurker, Mask of a Thousand Faces, superior Cloak the Gathering) can only be played by the controller of the acting minion. [LSJ 19990425]


EDIT: Direct LSJ link and quote; https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/Mmfn07ib6Yw/YfwpUlqEdrEJ

LSJ 1999 wrote: "Robert C Campbell Jr" <> wrote:
> Okay, can they hidden lurker on other people's turns?
>
> If so, can they hidden lurker after a block, if it's the last action that
> the acting player took with any of his vamps?

No. Action Modifiers (Hidden Lurker, for instance) can only be played
by the controller of the acting minion. You could not play Mask of
a Thousand Faces to assume someone else's minion's action, either. Nor
could your Malkavians play Cloak the Gathering to give someone else's
acting minion additional stealth.


Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
Last edit: 27 Apr 2020 21:20 by Kilrauko.
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28 Apr 2020 00:00 #99709 by Kiddo
Well, I stand corrected.

btw, it would be useful if such a clarification was in the general rules. Half a sentence and it really would make things much more clearer.
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28 Apr 2020 16:57 #99712 by Rémi
Thanks, I agree with Kiddo… a simple precision like "only the acting player can have their minion use action modifier cards" could be good in the next version of the rulebook !

Regards,
Rémi.

I am Rémi Cavaillé (), Barcelona (SPAIN). I was the Prince of Lyon (FRANCE) in 2003 :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kilrauko

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30 Apr 2020 00:36 #99719 by lip
Replied by lip on topic Action Modifier - General Rule
@Kiddo I try to build up a reference of useful rulings like this in the codex codex-of-the-damned.org/card-search/index.html?card=Cloak%20the%20Gathering

Do not hesitate to consult it in this kind of case ;-) (luckily this ruling was already added - it’s a common question)

To those of you who are rules specialists, this rulings reference is open-source, do not hesitate to contribute, help is welcome !
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