file Timing of cost paying for actions and the scope of the "action resolving" phase.

30 Apr 2020 16:35 #99722 by cauecoraini
Hello gents.

I have a question about the timing of cost paying for actions. Is the event "pay the cost of the action" part of the "action resolution", or does it occurs before the "action resolution" phase?

What is the correct flux of events:

A) successful unblocked action -> Begin "action resolution" -> pay costs -> resolve the effects -> end "action resolution"

Or

B) successful unblocked action -> pay costs -> only then Begin "action resolution" -> resolve the effects -> end "action resolution"?

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30 Apr 2020 19:46 #99724 by thelonius reloaded
As per Detailed play summary (you can find it in the rules section on the left sidebar)

Complete action.
If the action is one that cannot be repeated (bleed, political action, action card, or card in play), the acting minion now becomes unable to perform this action again this turn. [6.1.1][6.1.6][6.1.7]
If action was not blocked, then the action is successful. [6.2.3]
Pay cost of the action.
Resolve action.

Italian National Coordinator

Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy

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01 May 2020 14:57 #99726 by Sambomb

thelonius reloaded wrote: As per Detailed play summary (you can find it in the rules section on the left sidebar)

Complete action.
If the action is one that cannot be repeated (bleed, political action, action card, or card in play), the acting minion now becomes unable to perform this action again this turn. [6.1.1][6.1.6][6.1.7]
If action was not blocked, then the action is successful. [6.2.3]
Pay cost of the action.
Resolve action.


So i can play Mask of a Thousand Faces after pay the cost and before resolution?
Example: Nergal use basic Legal Manipulations and reduce the cost to 0.
After the cost is paid, a Horde use Mask of Thousand Faces to make the bleed.

Same example as above, but without Nergal use his card text to avoid any "other effects have been used that could not have been used if this vampire were the acting vampire"

The time frame to play cards between successful action and card cost exist in Forger's Hammer, but I didnt know about anything between pay cost and resolve the action.

Mask of a Thousand Faces [ Click to expand ]


Nergal [ Click to expand ]


Legal Manipulations [ Click to expand ]


Forger's Hammer [ Click to expand ]

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510

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02 May 2020 08:45 #99732 by Ankha

cauecoraini wrote: I have a question about the timing of cost paying for actions. Is the event "pay the cost of the action" part of the "action resolution", or does it occurs before the "action resolution" phase?


It's part of the action resolution.

Rulebook:
6.2.3. Resolve the Action
If the action is successful (all block attempts were unsuccessful), then the cost of the action is paid and the effects of the successful action take place.

Sambomb wrote: So i can play Mask of a Thousand Faces after pay the cost and before resolution?

No. You either play action modifiers before the action resolution, or after if the card allows it (eg. Freak Drive can be played after resolution).

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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02 May 2020 12:02 #99736 by jamesatzephyr

Ankha wrote: It's part of the action resolution.


LSJ expressly ruled that it's not.

[LSJ 20090312]

LSJ wrote: Action cards' costs are paid when the action succeeds (reaches resolution
unblocked) but before resolution (you have to pay the cost in order to resolve
the action's effect).


Ankha wrote: Rulebook:
6.2.3. Resolve the Action
If the action is successful (all block attempts were unsuccessful), then the cost of the action is paid and the effects of the successful action take place.


i.e. the cost is paid when the action is successful, but before resolution (application of the effects).


This is also shown in the Summary of the Course of an Action:
If no more attempts are made, then the action is successful, and the cost of the action is paid. If a block attempt is successful, then the blocking minion locks and enters combat with the acting minion.

i.e. its timing is linked to success, not the ensuing resolution.


The fact that the cost is mentioned in "Resolve the action" appears mostly just to be a weird artefact of the way the rulebook tries to group things into several broad categories, but then explains things that come before and after them. e.g. "before range is determined" is before Determine Range, but is explained in Determine Range anyway.

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02 May 2020 15:12 #99737 by Ankha

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Ankha wrote: It's part of the action resolution.


LSJ expressly ruled that it's not.

[LSJ 20090312]


Indeed, sorry for the mistake.

The answer to the second question stands however.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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