Pentex Subversion Poll #2 and Discussion

Squidalot wrote:

mattias you clearly have not played enough games against Una , to realise how flawed she is (or specifically the fact that she can act 10+ times in a row on turn 3) that's very hard to counter.

This is probably another discussion, but since people aren't complaining about how broken Uta Kovacs and Jann Berger are, perhaps the problem isn't Una. Perhaps the problem is 1. Freak Drive, which might need an escalating cost structure, or 2. the fact that the game affords few ways to interact with non-stealth action modifiers outside of Direct Intervention.

quite possibly but I stick to one area at a time hence you can't substantially changed Pentex Subversion without changing something else.

It doesn't just have to be Freak Drive - Cog with friends is quite painful as well.

For Pentex Subversion, I am very againbst anything that lower its power against bigcap but not against regular vampires. Pentex is the only thing that keep the bigcaps more or less in check anyway.

Now, gicing to player an option to burn the pentex without possible block may be good. For example, spend a discard phase action, 3 pool, and tap the target minion to burn the Pentex Subversion. So, you lose a lot to a pentex without credible support to your star, but if it's early enough you will not be completely dead.

AaronC wrote:

This is probably another discussion, but since people aren't complaining about how broken Uta Kovacs and Jann Berger are, perhaps the problem isn't Una. Perhaps the problem is 1. Freak Drive, which might need an escalating cost structure, or 2. the fact that the game affords few ways to interact with non-stealth action modifiers outside of Direct Intervention.

Yes and no. The logic behind Freak Drive is that its cost prevent it being used too often, and it work fine in most decks.

Interacting with non-stealth action modifier and reaction is kind of a slippery slope. You will end being MtG with counterspell and stuff like that.

The best solution is making new cards that counter it, right now I can think of only one card (Shadow of Taint) that can do this. A master card that that burns a card played by anther Methuselah, have it cost a pool. Maybe make it a trifle and it tap's the vampire. You could also have an ally that you could burn to burn a card played by another Methuselah. Their are better options, just need to be creative.

Pullen wrote:

The best solution is making new cards that counter it, right now I can think of only one card (Shadow of Taint) that can do this. A master card that that burns a card played by anther Methuselah, have it cost a pool. Maybe make it a trifle and it tap's the vampire. You could also have an ally that you could burn to burn a card played by another Methuselah. Their are better options, just need to be creative.

There's also Sudden, Wash, Bleeding the Vine etc.

I appreciate that none of these are perfect especially if you're playing against a multiple master deck with access to Anthelios/Ashur.

Year / TWDs Total / TWDs wPentex / %
1997-2008 / 1076 / 235 / 21.8% (prior to KoT/Ashur Tablets)
2009 / 236 / 111 / 47.0%
2010 / 231 / 130 / 56.2%
2011 / 253 / 144 / 56.9%
2012 / 89 / 62 / 69.7% (reports as of 6/26/2012)

Clearly we are experiencing some kind of trend. Large vampires got better specials and more disciplines in the last few published sets. Ergo, the advantages to playing with superstars grew as did the advantage of playing with the best superstar vampire counter card: Pentex(tm) Subversion.

The card should probably exist, but it *is* problematic, and the problem is getting worse.