A proposition to change Lilith's Blessing and Anthelios

Another solution could be to leave as is but introduce other cards that have some nasty consequences:

Just a matter of time
Type: Event, transient
Put this card in play with 5 (10?) counters. Each methuselah must remove a counter from this card during their discard phase. While this card has no counters all bahari minions are also infernal.

That'll teach people to play liliths blessing! Without being an immediate counter. Once infernal it's easier to make them red list if required (see 'Public enemy' action)

Banning Lilith’s Blessing is admittedly the simplest solution, but it’s eliminating a card with an interesting – albeit very powerful – effect in the game and also a trait that was meant to have some meaningful effect in the future.

Printing cards to interact with Lilith’s directly is problematic at (a) the level of testing and getting cards printed at this moment in time and (b) for all of the well-rehearsed reasons against having to include more card hosers in a deck to counteract particular card effects.

As the card stands Liliths’s Blessing has (a) introduced a powerful effect into the game, that (b) interacts very powerfully with certain other cards (e.g. villein) and (c) has also created a trait that is currently meaningless. The simplest resolution to me seems to be to make the trait meaningful, in the game and specifically the rulebook, in a manner that gives the powerful card effect an immediate downside and also interacts with certain other currently existing cards and strategies. Hence my suggestion of all Bahari are automatically on the Red List. This would be thematically justifiable and also empowers currently existing cards and strategies that are underpowered (i.e. Trophies); one might even start thinking about playing cards like Priority Shift in decks or else including Trophies in none Trophy focused decks, simply based on the likelihood of seeing the accursed Lilith-loving Bahari on the table.

Banning Lilith’s Blessing is admittedly the simplest solution, but it’s eliminating a card with an interesting – albeit very powerful – effect in the game and also a trait that was meant to have some meaningful effect in the future.

This not true. At no point was the intent to have Bahari actually mean something in the gane. Lilith's Blessing was spawned by a trainwreck of a storyline event and for some reason made standard constructed legal as well.

(supposedly because all earlier storyline cards were either unplayable trash or narrow enough to never have an impact and thus were added to the legal cards pool without further consequences).

Izaak wrote:

Banning Lilith’s Blessing is admittedly the simplest solution, but it’s eliminating a card with an interesting – albeit very powerful – effect in the game and also a trait that was meant to have some meaningful effect in the future.

This not true. At no point was the intent to have Bahari actually mean something in the gane. Lilith's Blessing was spawned by a trainwreck of a storyline event and for some reason made standard constructed legal as well.

Ah well, that was admittedly speculative and charitable of me. I simply could not imagine a trait being introduced into the game and then having no functionality whatsoever.

Temporis wrote:

As the card stands Liliths’s Blessing has (a) introduced a powerful effect into the game, that (b) interacts very powerfully with certain other cards (e.g. villein) and (c) has also created a trait that is currently meaningless. The simplest resolution to me seems to be to make the trait meaningful, in the game and specifically the rulebook, in a manner that gives the powerful card effect an immediate downside and also interacts with certain other currently existing cards and strategies. Hence my suggestion of all Bahari are automatically on the Red List. This would be thematically justifiable and also empowers currently existing cards and strategies that are underpowered (i.e. Trophies); one might even start thinking about playing cards like Priority Shift in decks or else including Trophies in none Trophy focused decks, simply based on the likelihood of seeing the accursed Lilith-loving Bahari on the table.

This is a good concept, but Red List is probably the wrong way to go, thematically. In the source material Red List is basically the equivalent of the FBI's Most Wanted listing, and Bahari is a religion/philosophy. Making Bahari = Independent and/or incapable of holding titles and votes would be much more keeping with the flavor.

Making them Red List is silly from a conceptual point of view.

brm130 wrote:

[In the source material Red List is basically the equivalent of the FBI's Most Wanted listing, and Bahari is a religion/philosophy.

It's a religion/philosophy with tie to infernalism. So it's not exactly stupid to say that Bahari should all be in the red list ; it's just that Baali should be red list before them, since bahari are both less well-known and more benign-looking than true Baali. (and certainly less dangerous, but it's subjective)