Concerning lilith's blessing, ashur tablets and liquidation

echiang wrote:

I think Villein is the problem, not Lilith's Blessing.

Although it doesn't create any blood/pool counters, it is the speed and acceleration that it provides (mainly due to the Trifle) which is the problem.

Villein + Giant's Blood (or Lilith's Blessing
Villein + Golconda

Yes and Yes. Lets take the 60 card deck example preying on the villein + golconda deck. 3 turns and ten pool to bring out your first minion. The 60 card deck brings you down to 3-4 maybe even 1. Then villein + Golconda = back to over twenty pool. It basically will become a race to see if you can keep up pressure long enough to finish the player off. If you get him, how much of your 60 resources have you used? If you don't, I think that player then has free reign.

I guess I'm just saying I agree that the speed of villein + another master is an issue.

Xaddam wrote:

Try it out. Make a 60-card voter and play KRCs with 100% of your actions and see all the 20-master cards decks vanish before their masters start paying off. It might be the final answer to these arguably too strong masters.

I've tried using a smaller deck. It does work for getting more VPs. But I have also noticed that if too many things go bad (and sometimes it only takes one), you have very little chance to recover. Your example is a good one for both cases. You can blow through and get some VPs before your prey can use masters or enough bloat to stop you. On the other hand, All your actions are KRC, one delaying tactics stops your momentum. Two delaying tactics and suddenly your really just setting your prey up to be ousted by your predator (assuming a game that is 6-8 turns as you have said is the norm in your meta).

Pendargon wrote:

I wrote a longish reply, but interent ate it away .

But the gist of it is : I play assamites... should i just crawl in the corner and die? The very idea of regular playgroup like that would make me go play solitaire...

Sure. You can do that if you like.
Or you can build and play good decks that work in evolved environments such as Sweden (death star, black hand bloat and bleed, Assamite Geezers Will Find Inner Peace, Tariq eats the World...).

Even Fatima and friends works like a charm. Ak47 kills vampires that are low on (aka, have just sold their souls to Lilith or have just been Villeined).


BTT (back to topic):
People, there's another thing about Lilith's Blessing: you either have multiple copies (uses precious slots) or you have only one and used seldomly.
The whole problem with the Ashur Tablets + Liquidation + Villein + Lilith's Blessing + Giant's Blood is the deck itself.
Because you either have in your hand ways to gain allot of and or ways to put it in the ahs heap and then going to get it for your hand (also gaining in the process).
The deck is strong, not the individual cards.
Is it unbeatable? Most certainly no.
Does is completely dominate the environment? Most certainly no.

Villein made it possible to use big caps, exactly by being Trifle. This is because it lets you use a Zillah's Valley in the same turn for another Vampire.
Liquidation is ok. Nothing wrong with the card. People already had good reasons to deal with opponent's big ash heaps.
Ashur Tablets are a hassle to use. Really. Destroy the key vampires that allow for extra MPA. Destroy, steal, cancel or contest the Parthenon.
I'm not even going to write about Giant's Blood or Pentex.
I had a Pentex on the first turn of my first Vampire in 2 rounds of the Swedish National. My only complain there? My fellow players played badly and didn't break it (not the Predator, of course).

All this still sounds to me like some players not wanting to build decks with silly cards like Suddens, Washes, Arsons or even Haven Uncovereds, or not wanting to change their playstyle just because a deck requires you to, and asking Pascal to solve the problem for them.
Well, sorry. I thing it's your job to do that, not his.

Cheers!
Tiago, the guy that uses Dan Murdock (also because when he goes to torpor I scream MACGUYVEEEEEERRRrrrrr...)

It's Lilith's Blessing and Jake Washington and Giant's Blood and Golconda and Taste of Vitae and Voter Captivation that are problem, not card that convert blood into pool. Villein is more or less fine, it don't create blood out of thin air.

I think LSJ is right here.

echiang wrote:

Or just use your normal assortment of Master cards, and Villein is far easier to fit in due to Trifle (as opposed to Minion Tap).

This is one of the best arguments in favor of Villein. When Minion Tap eats up half your normal master phase actions, there is little room for variety in the master card selection. Now you can play as many Villeins as you used to play Minion Tap, but still get a few other master cards in at the same time. Same thing for Blood Doll except Vessel isn't strong enough so we still have many decks playing 3-6 Blood Dolls.

Brum wrote:

Pendargon wrote:

I wrote a longish reply, but interent ate it away .

But the gist of it is : I play assamites... should i just crawl in the corner and die? The very idea of regular playgroup like that would make me go play solitaire...

Sure. You can do that if you like.
Or you can build and play good decks that work in evolved environments such as Sweden (death star, black hand bloat and bleed, Assamite Geezers Will Find Inner Peace, Tariq eats the World...).

Even Fatima and friends works like a charm. Ak47 kills vampires that are low on (aka, have just sold their souls to Lilith or have just been Villeined).


BTT (back to topic):
People, there's another thing about Lilith's Blessing: you either have multiple copies (uses precious slots) or you have only one and used seldomly.
The whole problem with the Ashur Tablets + Liquidation + Villein + Lilith's Blessing + Giant's Blood is the deck itself.
Because you either have in your hand ways to gain allot of and or ways to put it in the ahs heap and then going to get it for your hand (also gaining in the process).
The deck is strong, not the individual cards.
Is it unbeatable? Most certainly no.
Does is completely dominate the environment? Most certainly no.

Villein made it possible to use big caps, exactly by being Trifle. This is because it lets you use a Zillah's Valley in the same turn for another Vampire.
Liquidation is ok. Nothing wrong with the card. People already had good reasons to deal with opponent's big ash heaps.
Ashur Tablets are a hassle to use. Really. Destroy the key vampires that allow for extra MPA. Destroy, steal, cancel or contest the Parthenon.
I'm not even going to write about Giant's Blood or Pentex.
I had a Pentex on the first turn of my first Vampire in 2 rounds of the Swedish National. My only complain there? My fellow players played badly and didn't break it (not the Predator, of course).

All this still sounds to me like some players not wanting to build decks with silly cards like Suddens, Washes, Arsons or even Haven Uncovereds, or not wanting to change their playstyle just because a deck requires you to, and asking Pascal to solve the problem for them.
Well, sorry. I thing it's your job to do that, not his.

Cheers!
Tiago, the guy that uses Dan Murdock (also because when he goes to torpor I scream MACGUYVEEEEEERRRrrrrr...)

I absolutely agree with you